Lets discuss how device tags should continue to work on the forum. Lets do some catch up first.
The problem is we have a varied number of tags that try to communicate what scripts are available for which devices and some of that info is missing or outdated. Lets build a tag system that tries to solve this. I have a few ideas that could solve this and I’m opening this poll to see how many people would like to see this implemented.
These are the categories that we are working with:
Specific devices
TheHandy, Autoblow, Keon, etc.
Indicates the script was tested on that specific device and is designed with that in mind
Generic Devices
Stroker, E-Stim, Vibrator, etc.
Gives a more general indicator what class of devices a script was made for
Solves the problem that specific devices have different speeds and abilities
Not as accurate an indicator that a script will be a positive experience for your specific device
Axis Tags
stroke, vibe, twist, etc.
Even more generic, just indicates what axis a script was made to support, leaving the individual device to be a completely agnostic spec.
Which of these should be required tags
Specific Devices
Generic Devices
Axis
0voters
I personally think Axis and specific device should be required
The specific device would indicate what a script was tested on.
The axis indicates what the script supports.
Feel free to give more detail in the comments. We might take your words as useful feedback.
I also agree with making axis and specific devices required.
One thing I would say though, is that on the generic device tags, the stroker tag shouldn’t be there, i think it should be considered by default in the forum, that all of the scripts are for strokers unless, of course, they are not, and in those cases, we have the option to add, E-Stim, Vibrator, etc, as additional identifiers.
I disagree that we shouldn’t have the stroker tag. I think we’ll run into the same problem as not having a ‘straight’ tag of users not being able to filter out certain things they don’t want/need.
To answer the original topic, I think ALL of the information should be required, just to make searching for exactly what you want to find easier.
Oh thanks for reminding me about that. Off topic but we are working on the custom wizard plugin to setup onboarding and make the orientation tags work better. It’s a bit painful since the plugin is quite buggy but once it’s working we will be doing that.
Hummm… I see your point but i don’t think it is necessarily a equivalent situation, while orientation on the videos can be something you want to filter out, for the situation with the stroker you don’t need to do that, for example, if you want scripts for, let’s say, an E-Stim, looking for the tag itself should give you the results you want, doubly so when you can have multiple scripts in a topic and filtering out the stroker tag might hide topics that would have both of the tags present, as long as people tag the topics correctly this shouldn’t be a problem.
But I’m kinda indifferent on it tbh, i just think it’s a bit of a redundant tag that’s all.
Independently of the results here though, one thing i would like to ask @VladTheImplier, is to increase the tag limit accordingly to the increase of mandatory tags because for example, in the case of everything becoming mandatory, if somebody makes a multi-axis script for an SR6, that would be more than half of the tag slots that the current limit allows.
Even though I’m not particularly fond of having a limit to begin with, I understand why it’s there, so at least I, personally, would be thankful with an increase once the change is made
No need to worry about tag limits. They’ll be adjusted to fit necessary numbers. Plus, in the case of mandatory tags we would only enforce 1 minimum.
Also
It is. For the same reasons we keep the non-vr tag.
Imagine you search -tags:vr
This would give you a search for content that specifically doesn’t include the vr tag.
But not all posts are correctly tagged, and you’re at the mercy of people not including the correct tags.
We already have the community able to update tags to help resolve that issue but not many users actually do so. So the next best solution: tag enforcement.
Force users to make certain content contain certain tags (VR or non-VR for ex.)
A key question is what the tags are going to be used for in a filter. What purpose do they serve?
I belive Generic Devices will be most useful for the majority of the users here.
Device specific tags is like having Quest 2, Quest 3, HTC Vive, HTC Vive Pro, HTC Vive Pro 2, … instead of the VR tag. How are you going to find anything if they are that specific?
Other drawbacks with specific tags
Specific tags will become outdated when new devices replace old ones. Once Launch dominated among script users. Then Keon and TheHandy and took over.
Newer devices have no problem running scripts for older devices since they have better performance specs in general.
There are many devices out there with similar performance and new devices pops up regularly.
Useful tags reflect unique capabilities like multi-axis, vibration, stroke, e-stim, etc. Those will be valid even if there are new devices on the market and they probably reflect what people will search for.
Too specific and you have to do a multitude of searches to find what you are looking for.
Too generic and you get too many irrelevant hits in your search.
If both generic AND specific tags are required, this is a problem that solves itself. Users who want broad results can search by axis or generic device type. Users who want to know if a script was tested on their exact device can use the specific tag. Having more data to filter on doesn’t force anyone to get granular, it just gives people the option to if they want it.
The point about specific tags going outdated is fair, but that’s an argument for having generic tags too, not for dropping specific ones entirely. And the point about newer devices running older scripts fine actually cuts both ways. Knowing a script was tested on a Keon is still useful even if you own something newer.
Side note: might be worth having an “untested” tag for scripters who target a specific device but can’t physically test on one for whatever reason
The number of devices is huge. Look at the Intiface list of compatible devices (IoST Index). It has almost 900 devices now. What happens when someone can’t find their particular device if not everyone is added as a tag?
If scripters write in the post what they have tested their script on (which many already do), a user can judge if the script is interesting or not.
That’s still different in the sense that all tags that would refer to the video are kind of binaries that you might want to complete exclude one of those descriptors, but in case of the stroker i don’t think that applies if we make the tags mandatory.
This is what i mean, if i want to search, for example, E-Stim scripts, the topics in the forum would be tagged one of 3 ways:
Only “stroker”
“stroker” + “E-Stim” and/or other optional tags if applicable
Only “E-Stim”
In this situation, having a tag to filter out the “stroker” would only result in removing topics that might have what you’re looking for plus stroker scripts in the same topic, having both here doesn’t take away from what you’re looking for, so you’ll just be hiding content that actually has what you want as well, meanwhile if we were talking about orientation tags or VR tags, you have a reason to actually want to remove that content from the search, that’s what i meant
So in my opinion, generic devices should be the minimum for tagging because that more describes the intended form factor.
You need to know the type of device it was designed for more than the specific device. A stroker script tends to work decently enough across most strokers, if it doesn’t, its easy enough to modify or adjust(whether it be through a program or device settings)(speaking as someone who has to simplify some scripts for the Keon). A stroker script doesnt translate into a vibrator script and I assume its similar for estim or other form factors.
The problem with specific devices is that there are a lot of devices out there and requiring them only really helps for the super niche ones. @sentinel has a point about the number of devices. Like we implemented the required device tag and we immediately had to add a bunch more to the list. If the scripter designed it for use with a device in mind, they’re usually all pretty good about just mentioning it or putting the tag up themselves. And the search function on the website is usually good enough to find scripts with those devices mentioned in the OP.
Also I am 100% guilty of just designing scripts for strokers and not testing a bunch of them cause the last thing I want to do for something that’s a hobby is to QA a script I just spent hours making. Especially if it’s a longer script, I don’t think I could last for the whole thing without having to do multiple sessions and having to come back to it repeatedly.
As for Axis tags, its a bit clunky to require listing off all of the axises given if you have an SR6 script you lose at minimum 5 tag slots(given you have a limited number of tags per post iirc)(this only applies if we have a separate tag for each axis beyond stroke ie pitch roll surge sway twist)
I think the main one that needs attention to it is twist specifically. Stroke and vibe can be bundled under generic vibrator and stroker tags. Cause you can’t have pitch/roll without either devices and you cant have surge/sway without SR6. However you don’t necessarily HAVE to have twist on a multi-axis device. FUNSR with a twist is an example of a single-axis stroker with a twist receiver and there’s a possibility that any of the new devices(Handy2 and Keon2) might eventually get a twist accessory somehow.
We definitely need something regarding tagging for axises, Im just not entirely sure whats necessarily the best way to go about it.
Device-Specific Tags
I’m a little torn on the device-specific tags. In theory it should be a clear yes and improve the experience. Yet I doubt the practical side of things. The sheer number of devices has already been mentioned. But I also want to point out, that there is a false premise: Testing a script on a device does not mean, that the script was actually designed with that device in mind.
Best example: A script with consistent speeds of 1800 u/s “Tested with TheHandy”. You might increase the chances, but it’s not as sharp of a distinction as we would assume.
The opposite is also true. Just because I’ve tested on an OSR2, doesn’t mean it isn’t compatible with or even intentionally designed for TheHandy. Or maybe I haven’t tested it, but designed with the limitations of a specific device in mind. Do I tag it?
Because of that ambiguity and room for interpretation I doubt that the device-specific tags will be practically used correctly and therefore whether they’ll bring an actual tangible improvement. And I’m not sure whether there are good measures to rectify that without getting too technical and making things more difficult for script publishers; something that needs to be avoided.
Generic Devices
Just spit-balling: Is that something that could be inferred from the other tag groups and script uploads?
Axis
The more granular the better. But we’ll have to talk to an estim expert to find out what options, formats and combinations can theoretically exist there.
