Technology and the Sexual Balance

General
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I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and it kind of clicked for me.

VR, AR, and automated stuff have finally hit a point where it actually changes the balance between men and women when it comes to sex.

For most of my life, there was always this built-in dynamic where attraction came with leverage. Not even in a malicious way, just reality. If you wanted that experience, there was effort, risk, rejection, and usually some kind of aftermath attached to it.

Now it feels different.

I know I can go home and have a better experience on my own terms. No drama, no misreads, no pressure, no consequences after the fact.

And because of that, something in my brain just shifted.

It’s not that I’m not attracted to women anymore, it’s that they don’t have the same sway over me. It doesn’t feel like something I need to chase or navigate around. It’s just an option now instead of the option.

It’s honestly kind of weird to realize, because that dynamic felt so fixed before.

Now it just doesn’t.

Curious if anyone else has felt that shift, or if it’s just me.

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I’ve felt it to, it’s like an imbalance (of course the men side historically had the most sway in that imbalance considering it’s only a recent thing for women to finally be seen as equal and not as a toy, a servant or even property) has been shifted to true balance again.

With this stroker or Doll + VR technology my libido isn’t something as overbearing as it was before and as someone who was historically socially awkward around women (and when I was a kid, girls my age), I feel like I can stop seeing women as potential dates and instead as fellow humans to socialize with and become platonic friends (instead of my previous tendency as an autistic to misread signals and ruin friendships).

Regular masturbation never seemed to accomplish this for some reason. It would just generate a frustration that would build and grow into a mild resentment of those that “got it” “before me” instead of seeing it as everyone has their own time when they find the right person (or people) or pay for sex and devalue the experience or choose to work in the porn industry and sign their dignity away.

I can’t wait for more people to use this tech because of this personal improvement I’ve felt in my life psychologically that ironically made me steer away from the incel train.

I’m 24 by the way and didn’t start using the Handy until 2 years ago, I don’t subconsciously see women as objects anymore ironically. It’s so weird.

Anyone reading this and going “yeah right”, you can laugh I give you permission but this is my subjective experience. A healthy sex life without having to pressure or god forbid take advantage of others can do wonders for the mind.

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Most men have quit dating and have stopped having sex so it’s not something specific to technology/vr

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Lol wut?

most men?
I’m not meaning to be insulting - this out of concern… Maybe take a break from online and get some sunlight, touch grass, come into contact with real people.

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You must be very old it’s not an online thing there are stats on this especially for young men. You are not concerned for me, You are just living under a rock trying to gaslight a very observable reality. It might be hard to understand and grasp especially if you are older “how could men not interact with women” but it is reality birth rates are decreasing and a lot of men are not approaching women or using dating apps or seeking relationships.

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For me i always had social struggles anyway, and ever since these devices exist, those struggles actualy went away. Contact with women became a lot more natural for me, as the drill to only focus on getting sex is gone. And it wasnt me being over sexualized or anything, it was that i simple just locked up, not knowing what to say in order to get them to like me.

Dating apps on that realy didnt help, and only made the issue significantly worse. Im not someone that wants to be on a lot of pictures, so good luck on those apps.

So for me, since sex became essentialy easy due to devices, i no longer need to try to behave in a way i cant. And just because that makes my mind relaxed, which fixed the problem i had socialy.

Is it excelent. No, but that never was, but at least for me it no longer feels awkward. I have no trouble anymore starting a conversation.

And while dating is still a problem for me, i also just stopped caring. Not because i dont want to, but because social standards thanks to social media became that awkward i rather distance myself. If i find someone i like, i will still go for it, but if i dont. So be it. At least im not missing on the sex part. although bdsm which i like sadly is still expensive.

The only problem i had at some point was devices becoming too strong, and at some point caused DGS (the handy being the main offender here). It took about 2 years to fully get rid of that problem.

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Even if you go the dating app route there are things like “tea app” and “are we dating the same guy”

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There’s a bit more at work here than ease-of-gratification. I think that’s a terminus to the thought process, a conclusion that says “I’d rather do this, than…”.
And I do have to highlight the aggressively hetero nature of this topic… I am curious if anyone who identifies as bi or gay, experiences the similar issues in dating/forming IRL relationships/sexual compatibility, or if the male issues are just amplified.
Very briefly… not going to go all Gender Studies 340 here…
Historically, there has been little to no power in the dynamic for women. Only recently in the US could women even have their own bank accounts…marital r*pe isn’t even illegal in every state. Many countries have other, similar recent pasts regarding treating women like property. Yes, “recent” is doing some heavy lifting, I’m looking at a range of what we can consider ‘Western Civilization’. In that framework, women’s suffrage in the US just happened last week, for intents and purposes.
My point is that throughout human history, males have held a role that allowed us to access - practically speaking - sexual gratification when we wanted. Society was structured in a way that made it necessary for women to endure whatever they had to in order to meet basic needs. There weren’t real consequences for “stepping out”, brothels existed in almost every city, and physical abuse was just part of daily life. You can hop on Netflix right now and find a movie whose actors are still alive, showcasing what was acceptable abuse towards women… Bond films, anyone? Even as late as Pierce Brosnan (I preferred Dalton), the protagonist slapping a woman to shut her up was accepted. It still persists in some places, but thankfully isn’t something tolerated much by general audiences – but we continue to consume the media showing these things.
The harm these roles cause is generational. Lots of research emerging and recent, about this kind of thing:

“Males who are socialized to internalize emotions and adhere to traditional masculine gender norms tend to have a variety of maladaptive physical and mental health outcomes including risk taking, impulsivity, anger and aggression, heart disease, depression, and premature death”
The manosphere garbage, the turbocharged misogyny being broadcast across social media at every level… the culture (whose culture, the internet’s?) is one which poses an existential threat towards women, globally. This is not recent, it is a slow-burn resurgence that started before MRA and GamerGate, gained fuel from those [highly influenced and subsidized occurrences], and is decades in the making.
It’s important to note – women haven’t become more wary. There are more things they have to be wary of, the fears are the same but wear different masks and the access afforded predators by simply existing online, are part of the picture we see. Only recently have women been able to seize autonomy and can pursue justice for harms caused – if not legally, then socially. One of the benefits of social media has been for women… where legal courts fail, the court of public opinion is a lot harder to hide plausible deniability behind - MeToo was pretty fucking important. Connectivity allows women to network for safety – the major sites all have local spaces where women can/do share blacklisted men, name and shame degenerate losers… the legal system can’t or doesn’t deal with it, men are far too permissive of each other when an acquaintance or friend goes deviant, and we’ve failed to demonstrate being able to hold each other accountable.

I would argue the COVID pandemic marks a seismic shift backwards in human interaction. Not for just the obvious surface level stuff that people were (rightly) fearing around schools and child development (but went about it often in wrong ways). Rather, the sharp change to isolation, prevalence of interactions online vs in person, algorithmic feeds manipulating emotional states, and absolute firehose of hate, bullshit, and garbage to contend with everywhere left us all – globally – with serious trauma. And the antics of a subset of the population in the wake? It never allowed healing or recovery… we got thrown right back into being afflicted daily, without working on or developing the skills to manage the trauma. You can see this in the way the general public acts/interacts… Driving is a great example. People begin to act in ways they are permitted to – lack of enforcement and lack of direct consequences (assists, aids, safety measures) – leads them to disregard the Other as even being human.

I don’t disagree that instant-gratification culture is a significant component of the issues of IRL adult connection, however. What is the perceived barrier in seeking and forming relationships, that makes the instant-self-gratification more attractive? Is it not wanting to put in the emotional labor to know a person and open up to them, to build mutual trust? Is it that we have all – men and women and NB – developed an inherent mistrust of each other and have not managed to navigate this new landscape? Or is it that one group – women – is finally able to openly speak out about what has existed for generations? And the response is from men, who collectively long benefited from a veil of silence?
Is it even worse, and we’re seeing solipsistic tendencies filling in for emotional intelligence, due to attention economy and social media Panopticon? Why is it that men seem, at least outwardly, to be more susceptible to these influences than women?

Women have not experienced the same retraction of social groups as men. We cannot simply say that women’s attitudes have changed – how men interact with each other has changed in measurable ways.
Men did not adjust to new and changing social environments… we just feedback-looped the same behaviors, deviated from the emerging knowledge of growth and understanding of social and emotional intelligence, and largely existed in a dated culture that rejects these and more. How many of us had the same bullshit lobbed at us by parents and authority that they did? It’s called generational trauma for a reason. Boys raised and treated differently by adults, a treatment hasn’t changed all that much over generations, and adults without new understandings or the ability to grasp them, cannot break the cycle. This isn’t necessarily our – as in collectively, culturally, demographically – fault… but we do have a responsibility to break it if we can.
There is an instant gratification culture among men, but not a new one… it’s the same as the old one, but faster and shinier because internet. Culturally failing to adapt is the “loneliness epidemic” – there isn’t a shortage of women, there isn’t a “replacement” (and its always a fear about white men…hmm…), and women have always had a zillion reasons to be wary of men they do not know – but only recently have held any power in the dynamic to actualize and hold ground. In the meantime, men have really been fucking up, not just overtly, but also by not effectively pressuring others to adjust and develop.
I’m not sure we can, actually – not with the social media landscape as it is, not without some serious overhauls and a global, harsh, consequential reaction to the repackaged and rebroadcasting of pure misogyny. Individual voices, even a group in a forum such as this, cannot compete with the targeted volume and intensity of the regressive bullshit being pushed by grifters and the biggest fucking losers.

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Lets see where you’re getting your information from, then. Anything to support your beliefs?

“You just don’t get it, old man” isn’t doing you any favors here, and challenging unsound and invalid positions is not “gaslighting”.
My concern? It’s that this mindset persists and creates a world my adolescent niece has to subsequently armor herself against, instead of all of us progressing beyond this male entitlement culture.

“It’s observable” requires someone to have observed it, documented it, and have it corroborated - or widepsread agreed-upon observation. Which still doesn’t make a causal relationship between issues - it has to be proven.

Why do you think men are not approaching women?

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These arose because women need to protect themselves in the court of public opinion, since there are no sufficient protections otherwise. Like, really… the person who complains about women being able to connect and say “yeah, this guy had major creepy vibes and I felt real uncomfortable on our date” is absolutely also a person they have to connect about to avoid.

Do you know how hard it is to get a restraining order? Do you know how likely a sexual assault even gets investigated, much less justice served?

“Men fear rejection, women fear being raped and killed.” If your reaction isn’t one of empathy and sympathy for the difficulties women face, regarding relationships with men, and you don’t recognize just how many absolute deadbeat degenerate men there are out there that women have to actively, consciously avoid daily, you really need to study up.

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I think, like most things, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
I’m not a psychology expert so take this with a grain of salt but I’ll go into a bit of my own anecdotal experience and observations.

Sex/intimacy/affection etc. Are all separate. They’re commonly put together but they are used differently in all sorts of relationships. An example from my own perspective is I hate when porn actresses pretend to kiss me in VR. I’m not in love with these women. My lips are for my wife only. Because kissing in my mind is not pleasurable without the emotion being felt with someone. Kissing someone I don’t have an emotional attachment to is for me, just gross.

My personal growth in the world of porn, starts with my mom (I know hear me out). When I was 7 I was given the talk about the birds and the bees. This didn’t just stop at puberty and safe sex though. She also talked about porn, consent, fantasy, what toys were, that only adults can do certain things, etc.

My mother and I are very open with each other about a lot of things, and we’re very comfortable about talking about sex. She told me when I got older that she knew it was only a matter of time before I discovered these things on my own and it was safer that she educated me about these things.

As a result of that, I find that I have a much healthier outlook on relationships, intimacy, sex, porn consumption, etc. I regard porn consumption much like videogames. It’s a form of entertainment and immersion into fantasy. It’s why I love VR and Toy integrations and is most likely the very reason I offered to take over the forum and continue it’s legacy.

I personally think that VR porn with integrated devices do not replace real intimacy. It will never replace that emotional feeling I get when I fondle my wife. It’s just simply not the same thing. Both are equally enjoyable and valuable in my life but they’re 2 different experiences. One can’t replace the other and vice versa.

Thanks mom

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I wanna throw my two cents out there, because being a bisexual man married to a man gives me a bit of a different lens on this. First off, I agree completely with Vlad. I had a very similar talk with my mom, and although it was very embarrassing, I do feel like it led to a much healthier understanding of porn and sex. But some of the talk here about “sexual leverage” and tech “balancing the scales” between men and women feels like it is missing the mark.

In a gay relationship, you do not really have that specific gender power dynamic people are describing. There is no built-in sway or leverage based on sex. Yet even without those factors, dating is still just as hard as everyone here says it is. You still have to be vulnerable, find a person you actually connect with, and risk the messiness of rejection or misreading someone. The emotional stakes are exactly the same.

Because of that, I have never really bought the idea that objectification is just a byproduct of being frustrated or having unmet needs. In fact, I think that line of thinking is pretty unhealthy. It frames objectification like a natural pressure valve that just happens if you are not getting laid, but that is not true. Objectification is a choice in how you view other people. It is not a biological side effect of a high libido. The hunger people are describing here is not strictly about sex, and pretending it is just makes it easier to avoid looking at how we actually perceive and treat others.

My husband and I use toys together and for us it is just something shared that adds to the experience. It does not replace anything. The reality is that no piece of hardware can replicate what happens after the tech is put away. Just lying there together when everything is quiet and warm is something you can’t package or simulate. Sex toys can never replace that feeling, and you are really missing out if you think they can.

I think what a lot of people in this thread are actually touching on is that connecting with another human being is intimidating and exhausting. It is a very normal reaction to feel like it is easier to just not try, and there is no shame in feeling that way. But a toy is not a solution for that. It might help take the edge off in the moment, but it does not make the actual work of knowing another person any less complicated.

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This is a very interesting reply lol have you seen the amount of lies on the tea app? or even the amount of false accusations and cancel culture witch hunts? You sound like a male feminist.

Men are more at risk for being killed and being in danger compared to women yet guys do not have paranoia about it. If you think sexual assault isn’t treated seriously for women you realize it would be even worse for male victims right?

Holy shit “male entitlement culture” this is funny and yes you are gaslighting do you know anything about modern dating for young men? Even the news is talking about this I have to call you old…

“you really need to study up” No I’d rather not become a gynocentric male feminist…

It’s actually funny that an argument took place because I simply stated common knowledge that a lot of men have stopped dating or seeking relationships with women, what a crazy statement am I right?

“men have really been fucking up” women can do no wrong men have made them weary the issues with modern dating is caused only by men feminism is great and manosphere bad /s

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In this thread you can see a bunch of people implying the real thing isn’t worth the effort or at least that vr and tech is enough of a replacement. If you think about people having sex for hook ups and there not being an emotional aspect then it makes sense

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This topic is adjacent to a question I have pondered when considering to release scripts. Whether this would contribute more to a problem or the contrary. Truly it’s a topic we could discuss in any depth.

As can be seen from the answers so far: Sex means different things to different people. And if we asked the same person, what sex meant and/or looked like 10 years ago or ask them in 10 years, the answers would be different. In fact, there’s different kinds of sex the same person can have in their day to day lives. And each type meets different needs and/or wants, serves a different purpose and can exist next to eachother. Just some example: Pure horniness vs. pressure valve/stress release vs. attachment/feeling loved vs. hatefuck vs. spirituality vs. excitement/thrill vs. Relaxation vs. fantasy vs. maintenancy vs. … … …

So while I personally haven’t had the shift the OP described, I find it entirely plausible. And it’s heartening to see, that this has a positive effect on their mindset or social behavior, which can lead to better outcomes for romantic relations. It would be very interesting to delve into how exactly masturbating with a stroker with or without VR/AR differs to masturbating manually biologically and psychologically, but I for some reason doubt, there’s a lot of scientific literature out there ^^

As others have already pointed out: The real thing does hit differently. And by that I mean that real human connection meets different needs/wants, especially in a sexual context. As long as engaging with the toy/porn/games/whatever doesn’t become maladaptive, because one tries to compensate for a different, but present need, or it becomes an avoiding behavior, I see no harm. And this will probably be very individual to what extent it can become problematic.

That being said. Sexual activity always also activates our emotional circuitry (which is why some people get attached, when it was supposed to be a casual encounter and part of a problem with dating apps, but that’s neither here or there). And it might just be the most powerful circuitry we have, where the effects can be intense (both in a good or bad way, when unmet). And so, it is not just needs/wants of a sexual nature that can be impacted/compensated for. Which brings me to this comment:

The heavily implied male loneliness issue does not just show, that young men and women are having less sex than earlier generations (2025 in the US: 10% virgins, Australia: 33% didn’t have sex within a year, so not most), but also that especially men have less of who they would call close friends (of any gender). The problem is most likely as so many other things multi-factorial. And I believe that the socialization and development which @toyboyacct has extensively described (thanks for that write-up and link) does play a greater roll in both those issues, than adult tech and entertainment. The latter could probably very easily exacerbate the effects, but I’d be surprised if it was causal.

But before I go too deeply into the social aspect and make it even longer (maybe it deserves its own topic, so we can stay on the personal emotional shift topic in here), shout-out to both moms of @VladTheImplier and @gayrobot. And to you two for recognizing the great job they did with this. It is unfortunately not as wide-spread as it should be.

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With respect, but I’ve read the exact opposite: People said that the tech helped them being less socially awkward around women or made it easier in general to strike up a conversation, as well as this part:

So less objectification and frustration and more relaxed, intentional and meaningful encounters on eye-level. Can’t see how you arrived at your conclusion.

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I think that “implication” is happening where people consider superficial act of sex a “real thing”. And it is very easy to believe that is the real thing, everyone first play the game of life on that level. So, while you are there, this technology can provide experiences that are practically whatever you want, you can have the best possible experiences, better than the one you (well, most people) can have without the technology.

The thing is, even with the best and most amazing experiences that technology can provide there is still something missing, at least for me. And that has nothing with anything you can see or feel with classical senses. Everything we see and feel, our perception, all of that is coming from particles and is filtered to create our experience, but the energy fields that are outside of our narrow perception band, that we can’t see, still affect us. So the feeling of being together with another person, when they are able to relax and release their ego, and you have sex then, you become merged, especially if we have slow and gentle sex, I (well both of us) have experience where I am unable to tell where is end of me and beginning of her. The feeling of “charging” her with my charger hehehe and feeling how I fill her with my energy, how her success is my own and how everything is connected… I think I can only experience physically being part of something larger than me when I have spiritual awareness of being part of something larger than me, and technology is limited to purely physical level.

I feel like these 2 things are 2 separate needs, technology can provide pleasure, fun, and a way to burn off extra energy (and I feel that I get less creative when I endulge in it, I understand the benefits nofap people claim but I know that I am not flawless and I embrace these “flaws”, I like both sides), while real human connection can provide sense of belonging, purpose and continuity of existence beyond single body or single life. And I even think that sexual/body-to-body connection is not even the only way to achieve it, you can do that by creating something that improves lives of others, or volunteering for a good cause, or even sponsoring onlyfans girls, every way of creating something and then directing that energy into what you want to grow/improve is going to provide feeling of purpose.

TLDR: If you suffer from loneliness or lack of purpose, then technology alone, just a vr headset and bunch of machines and content cannot fullfil these needs, pleasure alone does not make you happy. But is amazing distraction.

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Oh, nvm, you’re already gone. Good luck with life.

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You don’t need to be a feminist to acknowledge the hardships of women in any context for the same reason you don’t need to be a full blown MRA to acknowledge the hardships of men in any context.

Empathy for women is not exclusive to women or feminism.

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Interesting discussion; thanks to the OP for starting it up. Never let it be said that porn forums can’t host insightful discussions about life, the universe and everything.

@ace fire: I understand. I’ll add an extra dimension in the discussion: in all my relationships, I have never, ever, experienced 1/10th the amount of pleasure that I experience with technology. I’ll come back to that word, “amount”, however (spoiler). But I must start by saying that anyone who disputes the “1/10th”, has never had masturbators, anal vibrators and e-stim devices edge him into oblivion for hours on end; while having the most perfect women on the planet pushing all his brain’s visual “buttons”.

There can be no doubt about this: you will NEVER blissfully edge your brain out as much with a sexual partner, as you can with technology. NEVER.

So, if you are into “relationships” the way they are defined by dating apps - sex-buddy of the day - then, absolutely, yes; technology offers a dramatically SUPERIOR amount of pleasure than what you will get from a “body” you only sleep with one or two times before the inevitable switcharoo.

Now, if we decide somehow to be honest about it, there are side-effects to this technological “thirst quenching”. It removes a vital part - perhaps the most vital part, at the beginning - driving people into bonding: The “Hunger”, the “Thirst”. And that indeed changes things a lot, for many men that suffer from said hunger.

As you said, it allows you to look at women objectively, rationally - and decide to form or not form friendships with them, without the hunger driving you mad.

…and many young men whose thirst has now been quenched, will take a good, long look… and decide to, well, not go there.

Claiming that porn, edging and gooning are somehow not associated with the cliff-like drop in long term relationships is ridiculous. It’s sticking one’s head in the sand. Statistics from the last 10-15 years on marriages and sex between young people are, like, screaming the truth. Hell, women do as well - talk to any young woman and they will tell you about it.

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Men that only looked at women as sex objects for “thirst relief” are now dropping out of marriage - and out of society altogether, sometimes - because the thing that defined their entire existence (the thirst) is now satiated - completely. And then some.

And to be clear, @Shownshadow: women - both outside and inside marriages - always know, understand, and… well, “use” the hunger. I am being objective about our reality here: it’s ABSOLUTELY natural for a woman to regulate the sex in a long-term relationship. It is literally how both they, and us, are WIRED. Anybody who has ever lived with a woman knows what I am talking about; pretending this is not the truth, is, again, ridiculous.

The only question that young men should ask themselves, therefore, is this: was your interest in women only driven by the Thirst?

Do you only care about maximizing the “amount” (see? I promised I’d get back to this) of pleasure in your life?

Or do you feel that your life is empty unless you live through the wholesome experience that @edger477 shared? To blend your life with that of another human being to such an extent, that considering life without them is completely crazy? To have children with them and face all the insanity and unpredictability that comes with it?

The answer to that question is a personal thing. There is no right or wrong answer - only right or wrong FOR YOU.

If you are a person that loves his freedom, his ability to do whatever the fuck he likes, who has experienced the modern “dating” scene and felt an overwhelming “FUCK NO”, who wants to be able at any point in time to hop on a plane and live in a different state/country every 2 years… then with your thirst quenched by technology, NO, you don’t need women. And your pleasure needs can be more than adequately addressed with technology. Far more, in fact.

But that may not make you completely happy.

P.S. I started a similar discussion in Milovana, some years ago; but it quickly turned into a shitshow, because people were over-reacting - from both ends of the spectrum. I hope this one won’t suffer a similar end :slight_smile:

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