Site monetization

General Polls
21

I would donate ES Patreon exclusive scripts, along with others. There’s a contingent of scripters that feel a bit underappreciated by the community and some of the leaning towards treating scripters as “service providers”. Given the chance to make scripts available to good ES patreons would be enticing.

Alternatively some other ideas:

  1. Scripters could make some of their scripts “early access” for ES Patreons only. This could be a few days or a week, but it wouldn’t affect their overall reach and would still give a good benefit for ES Patreons
  2. Scripters who wish to sell their scripts could be granted that “privilege/tier” after donating 1 ES Patreon exclusive script per year.
  3. Paid scripters looking to get a quality “verified” badge could submit an ES Patreon exclusive script to a leadership committee which would then be vetted, feedback generated, and badge given upon review. This would kill 2 birds with 1 stone - provide ES Patreon exclusive scripts, as well as provide buyer confidence/protection that the seller isn’t selling garbage scripts.

I’m sure there are a lot of other great ideas out there, but those are just a few from the top of my head.

10 Likes
22

So I have a lot of thoughts on this topic so please forgive me for the book report I’m about to post here:

On the topic of making paid scripters “pay to post”:
While I understand completely the concern that the community has with we’ll just say “bad actors” using and abusing the boards to shamelessly promote their products/patreon/alternative services, I can point to countless others (like myself) that offer free scripts in addition to their paid scripts, provide feedback to newbies, create guides, donate to the patreon, etc. While I know that some of those users are few and far between, we cannot deny that they exist and to punish them with more fees for those actions I feel is incredibly short sighted.

It also should be worth noting that when it comes to paid scripts (unless once again barring “bad actors”) that scripting isn’t something that just takes a few moments to do. To use myself as an example, I script VR content exclusively alongside some other prominent users here on the forum and while I do not pretend to speak for them I can confidently say (at least for myself) that each scene we script can take upwards of at least 7-8 hours to script if not longer. I remember one scene in particular taking me over 12 hours to script because it was a 90 minute scene that had very specific actions. This is all to say that our time is valuable and should be compensated as such. Do I make anywhere near the amount of money my full time job provides me for scripting? Absolutely fucking not. Last I did the math, I made about enough to make up for 2 months of not working my full time day job. While that isn’t nothing to sneeze at, it is definitely not something I could confidently “put down my shovel” and just script porn for the rest of my career.

In addition to the time commitment, there are a ton of other things that are done behind the scenes before and after we release paid scripts that I don’t think the community recognizes or even appreciates. Once again, speaking for myself I work a full time day job outside of scripting and with my scripts I still have to:

  • Test scripts for compatibility/sync and make corrections
  • Answer customer e-mails
  • Respond to questions/comments on posts
  • Keep active subscriptions to all the major sites so I’m grabbing the latest content
  • (most recently) migrate all of my paid scripts to an entirely new payment platform

AND MORE!!

I say all this not because I’m trying to garner sympathy, but more to address all the behind the scenes stuff that goes into making a quality product and releasing it as such. I understand that not everyone does this, but my philosophy is that if I am going to ask people to spend their hard earned money on me than I want them to get the full benefit of said spent money.

In addition to all this behind the scenes work, I also occasionally release free scripts, run massive annual sales and donate to the board’s Patreon. I do all of this because I am grateful to the community and want to show that I am active participant in it.

On the topic of “Supporting the forum and mods”
I believe it was @flowerstrample that already mentioned about the costs associated with running a forum that is as large as ours (and growing) and what it takes to make something like that work. I won’t rehash their comments as they are exactly in line with my way of thinking. Yes, I want this site to grow, evolve and the owners and mods to be fairly compensated for their efforts. However, punishing paid scripters I think is the wrong way to go about doing it IMO.

So, what’s my solution to all of this?
I believe another member mentioned this already in the comments, but if storage/bandwidth/etc is a concern, maybe we should be exploring a similar model to what SLR does with their scripts; allow users to to download a free script from the free script section a week or month and then if they want to download more of those free scripts, they will have to become a donator to patreon. It could be as something as small as $1/month. They could still have access to everything else the forum provides for free (guides, discussion boards, etc) but if they want content, they would have to pay for it eventually. This money collected from the patreon could go towards server costs, compensating the mod staff and maybe even create a fund for scripters to even contribute some exclusive scripts to the people who donate/subscribe to the patreon. This would also I think have the added benefit of having paid scripters release more free content over time and purge some of the bad actors that post in that section.

Once again, these are just my thoughts and I welcome anyone’s feedback in relation to them. Ultimately, punishing paid scripters by making them pay more to post just seems incredibly short sighted to me and will ultimately turn away more good members of this community more than it will bring more good members in.

3 Likes
23

Commenting to say that I really like this solution a great deal. Should have tagged you in my comments I just posted.

24

I don’t care either way, but newcomers shouldn’t be able to immediately post paid scripts at all and for some time. There are tons of paid scripts I bought which weren’t to my liking at all. I also enjoy this more as a hobby than trying to make money (as a German guy with a good paying job it’s even out of question with taxes and shit, not worth the trouble). I sometimes have people commisioning me for some gift credits (PSN or Steam) so that I get something back for my time investment and not only a good script. Depending on the scene it takes me 6-20 hours to script a scene and I see it as investment into the community.

In regards to site monetization I wouldn’t mind ads and all. Servers and bandwith cost money or maybe have the first tier of the Patreon be the key to people being able to post paid scripts. That should at least stop low effort posting a little bit.

Tbh I hate the whole paid scripts stick in a porn community. Would rather have more people try to script or get into it and let everyone enjoy some good handmade free scripts. Also let us not get into gatekeeping from people downloading free scripts (with the small sizes those have). Fucking hate that a site SLR is doing that shit.

5 Likes
25

Posts here like this and some of the ones talking about low number of sales are making me rethink posting paid scripts.
Maybe I’d be better off going in the complete opposite direction - showing people how I script more easily and maybe where to find higher quality sources for videos. In the end I only script videos I love, so idk.

I don’t really think I could get much money, but maybe enough to pay back the time spent. But yeah with fees and taxes, it’s probably crap.
I wouldn’t mind moving my works into an “Eroscripts Supporter” section of the forum going forward.

26

That’s the thing for me. For it to be worth it I would need to make 60€ per hour I spend on a script. I have gotten way faster over the years, but I still need a lot of hours to finish up a script with lots of details. I mostly don’t even need to test if the script syncs because I go frame by frame so only need to do that with parts that are way too quickly and where I have to take max speed into account. I guess my average is now about 6-8 hours of just scripting per VR video (30-40 minutes) (yes, time only counts when you are actively scripting) so people can do the math and immediately see that it’s not a profit thing for me at all which is why I release everything for free.

I get a ton more enjoyment knowing that people like my scripts and I am glad most scripters only script the boring western stuff with the same 10 women (depending on the porn season lol).

So even with the commissioners (that pay some good amount of credit depending on the video, thank you guys, makes things more enjoyable from time to time!) I would need to make a lot of bank for it to be financially worth it. That’s my case as a German dude having a mid range paying job (I am not rich at all).

For people from other countries it can be profitable though I guess.

I am helping some people through DMs (mostly japanese peeps, hey guys!) getting into scripting and giving feedback for their scripts if I have the time to look at them and give tips. Reminds me that I have to check two peoples scripts yet lol.

I am also actively thinking about supporting through Patreon, but currently I think I am already doing a good service by providing bigger complete scripts here and there for free, but if costs get way too high I wouldn’t mind supporting or having ads on here.

27

Reputation matters. A scripter that has proven him/herself is more likely to get sales anyway. This can be achieved through just posting free scripts and becoming a known member, or just proving it by paying (which sets a minimum treshold). Paying in this case should just be a last resort though.

The best reputation building is making free scripts. Make 3 excelent scripts and you are already more likely to get sales for paid scripts. And by having provided those 3 scripts, you essentialy also already provided value. To me this should be enough for free access towards the paid section.

But if someone is active elsewhere, it might be bad to deny them entirely. They might already be selling the scripts someone else. And in the end, as g90ak said, more scripts provided is better as content is made very slowly.

Some quality check for paid scripts is something i do like though, and payment is one of those ways as it means you need to at least get some sales to offset the costs. It can purge the worst out of it. Yet if they even then still decide to pay for it, either they lose money (yet still support this site), or just make some money with lesser quality scripts. Thats why im not against locking it behind payment.

I just hope that for members that have settled themselve, they can get a way to get access without being forced to pay first. A few free scripts (or a very long single script) can already show how skilled a scripter is. If such scripter then goes paid mode only. Its at least still a scripter thats active.

Going for adds is to me a bad thing as it has far too many downsides:

  • malware. especialy on niche sites malware is a huge risk in this
  • adblockers. the most essentialy tool to defend against malware. asking people to turn them off is like asking a hooker to have unsafe sex. Its a very simple NO! (insert bugs bunny)
  • tracking. ads often involve tracking, and on a sex related site, thats a bad idea. Even normaly tracking is already a very dark grey area, but now it can reveal you use certain sex toys. Its a bad idea.
  • static image adds takes too much effort to maintain, even though these would be safe.

It would help most if device manufacturers would provide the adds of their device on here. Its a low volume of ads so managable, and its then provided by the ones that benefit most from this site existing. But yeah, with the many mega provided videos, its a very grey area they would support, and could even backfire into DCMA troubles.

In the end, payment for providing a service is the safest method to go for. And blocking the paid section of through that might just be the easiest, even with its downsides.

1 Like
28

A novel idea, but I believe that most companies need another business entity to be able to pay for ads. So, unless ES creates a business entity that won’t happen.

29

There is no plans to remove features from the forum. Please keep posting paid scripts.

This poll was made to get an idea of what everyone thinks.

I actually dont like the idea of paywalling existing features. I only want to dissuade abusive behaviors and try to bring more money to forum for infrastructure costs.

4 Likes
30

The issue of providing paid access to scripts will raise legal issues about copyright, because script is a derivative of video, the copyright is owned by the studio or model or etc. While small scriptwriters sell it, studios and other copyright holders do not pay attention to this, as soon as the largest script resource on the Internet will try to do something like this - wait for legal action. On the contrary, it seems to me that small scriptwriters publishing scripts - stimulate the sale of subscriptions on the sites of copyright holders.
Free downloading as well as publishing should be free without exceptions such as subscription, early access, rent, etc.
In the dry balance we have only the possibility to take donations from people who post their paid scripts here or are not indifferent to the community - now it is a voluntary process. I propose to make it mandatory to post in the category of paid scripts, many people are already patrons of the community through Patreon, and let everyone decide the amount for themselves “according to their conscience”.
Many people disagreed with me, if there will be bonuses for a large payment per month - let’s remove the bonuses? I sobered up and now I agree. Publishing rules are the same for everyone, the amount of donation per month starts at $3 for example.

31

This is not accurate. If that were the case you could DMCA a lot of porn for making other videos with the same actions. You cannot copyright the actions of a video.
Funscript is effectively recording metadata for a video and metadata is not copyrightable.

You can however copyright the funscript itself as it’s a creation of a user akin to a SVG graphic that contains instructions for an interpreter.

There’s a well known copyright clause that is implicit to a creator. If you are the original creator of something that can be copyrighted you are implicitly the copyright owner. If you make a derivitive work of someone else’s copyright you own the copyright of that derivitive work, but the owner of the original holds the right to take control of it. There are some exceptions to that for ex. music which has a master and a publshing right of a copyrighted song.

Copyright laws can get complicated quickly but funscripts would not be considered a derivative work of a video. A derivative of the video needs to hold a copyrightable component of the video to be a derivative.

Source: My pirate nerd ass reading way too much into copyright laws.

4 Likes
32

I didn’t know that, but I remember SLR wrote about it in their agreement. We won’t know for sure until we ask the court for clarification. You may be right.

33

I’m going a bit of topic but I feel the need to straighten something out.

That is not fact. It’s an opinion.

Creating an original script could as well be compared to creating a choreography to music. The music and lyrics are protected, but the dance is its own independent work as long as you don’t use it with the music for public performance. Different countries might interpret this differently of course.

4 Likes
34

In order for a piece of content to infringe on a copyright it needs to be a replica or be able to create a replica of said infringed content, or replace the value that the original piece provided.

funscripts cannot do that.

It is worth noting, because funscripts themselves are a copyrightable work, they can be derivitives of each other and you COULD get in hot water selling an “alternative” of an original script.

2 Likes
35

Developer hereby acknowledges and agrees that each Script may be deemed a derivative work of the content upon which it is based and that neither Developer nor Operator may own the copyrights or other proprietary rights in such base content.
Accordingly, Developer hereby agrees and acknowledges that Developer may not distribute, sell or otherwise use the Scripts in any other manner other than as set forth herein. This means that, absent additional authorization from the owner of the base content, and any other person from whom authorization may be required, Developer may not distribute or sell any of the Scripts to other any person or business.

I’m just gonna leave this here

36

That’s a license agreement rather than a copyright enforcement.
Their agreement can’t change the law.

Not legally enforcable unless SLR owns the scripts copyright.

This is a given. You can’t own a work you created the derivitive for.

Terms agreement that you can’t sell your scripts in ways that violate this agreement
This might violate most favored nation legalese.

This is not legally enforceable unless somewhere in the agreement it states you are relinquishing the copyright of your scripts to SLR.

2 Likes
37

Not just that, but also most who go to this site, already have such device, so its still only a very small target audience for them. Which means they also need to promote this site, and again, DCMA risks.

Thats why i didnt realy consider it an option.

You can copyright an entire plotline and a lot of details in it. Even porn movies have to obey this. However, unlike actual movies, most porn scenes are just too short or lack variety to realy have enough content to be able to force this.

You can try to mimic a james bond movie in storyline, but you can also be sure that its going to create a lawsuit.

However, reviews, summaries, or descriptive content (subtitles) all have their own rules.

Subtitles being the most restrictive here as the translation is still based on content that is often copyrighted (the text of a movie is a standalone copyright).

Reviews can use content in order to make the review effective. If a certain 4s scene has some horrible CGi, and you display that. It is allowed. Its required to indicate quality, and therefor a review cannot circumvent displaying an example. However, you have to take efforts into making sure that the content isnt realy usable for other things.

Summaries generaly arent allowed to use the original content at all. They can even spoil plotlines. And only when too much detail gets added into it, it becomes a copyright conflict.
And this is where funscripts take place. They summarize the video by only displaying a heatmap of action. From the script alone its impossible to create the original content, or its most likely going to become completely unrecognisable.
Thats why they are allowed.

38

I purposely didn’t cut out some of the sentences to make it clear what I’m talking about. It was the last paragraph that misled me and contradicts your words. So they’re either lying or overreacting. As a person far from the law, I did not double-check these statements. But this is off-topic.

39

Unless you agree to give SLR the copyright of your scripts, you own the scripts and can decide how their licensing works.

SLR can only enforce a license agreement on how you use their service.

There is a huge lawsuit right now concerning this very topic with valve and most favored nation clauses in their steam subscriber agreement.

3 Likes
40

You could adopt a variant of Something Awful banner ads, whereby only site users can purchase banner ads, and the ad consists of only the image file and a link to a thread on this site. That thread can then externally link to wherever it needs to go, making bad actors much easier to nail down.