Nowhere in my replies did I mention specifically banning legal content. The argument took a sideways turn into support or not of giving content for coping…
Sinibus
…The legality arguments are one thing, but this is scaremongering, and all it serves to do is to drive people into the shadows and cut off the methods they’ve found to cope with might otherwise be an extraordinarily harmful proclivity over which they have no choice…
And I simply was stating my opposition to that point.
My initial reply was in reference to access to filter settings and how someone joining the site may not know how to access those features or even know if they exist.
I’m a business application developer and I am sure I could find the settings and set them… given enough time spent… however… my time is at a premium on average. Most days I pop on here with enough time to skim for new content and get back to what I was doing. I generally don’t have a lot of time to spend digging for something.
So I wanted to voice something that might get a feature update that might help others.
This has been discussed a thousand times and the same types of people keep trying to push bans. If you cannot bring yourself to use the tag muting system on your profile so you cannot see content you don’t agree with, you do not get to complain about seeing that content.
The only thing I could agree to ban is the Gore aspect, as it is literally death, blood and carnage. That’s not a sexual preference, it’s literally horror. An aesthetic to ones actual sexual interest, not an interest in and of itself, and is so unbelievably niche as to bother almost no one at all if it was gone. I think there’s only been like 2 of such topics in the time I have been on this site that I am aware of.
What EVERYONE needs to understand is that the majority of this argument can’t be tolerated itself. It will keep being brought up as long as the world keeps turning until the people in favor of the bans win even once on every topic they disagree with. The content will never be allowed back once banned due to social expectations of keeping what has ever been disallowed in its place, even if perceptions change on subjects. It’s a one way street and it has been tried over and over again since this site was probably created.
Ultimately the tools are in place to never see what you do not want to see. This forum litigation by those who refuse to tolerate others interests needs to stop or they can leave. Everyone else, the majority of users, just focuses on what they like, it’s the few who keep kicking up a ****storm over this when they can already do something about it personally on the profiles. Just stop.
If you want an idea on maybe putting an end to this, you could use that notification system for new users for rules and stuff, and add a new one, explaining the tag system on profile settings, and telling them to mute things they may find offensive. Then give a list of the contentious topics an average person may dislike so they can mute it before doing almost anything else on this site. Then,disallow complaints about content entirely. You don’t like something, you are entirely at fault for seeing it at that point.
Yes, there should be a more visible instruction on how the site works for key features.
The filter settings aren’t even called filter settings… they are buried in profile preferences, under tracking, then called mute… words that average forum goers aren’t looking for. Normally filter or search preferences. Muting is generally prescribed to a poster and seeing their replies or posts, but when searching through topics… filtering is generally the term used to denote removal of topics that are not in your search criteria.
And that button is usually plainly visible next to the list of topics on the main page. I see a place for tags, but that isn’t even persistent. Meaning it doesn’t persist between sessions.
Default-muted tags is an available Discourse feature. It can be put to use.
To avoid the “shadow-ban” effect mentioned by defucilis, it needs to be clarified to new users that there are tags that are muted by default, at the same time educating them how to adjust the filter according to their need. A pinned post will serve the purpose.
Actually, given the situation where the filter feature is largely overlooked, we probably should do that right now.
Honestly, I’m surprised this hasn’t been done yet. I’m of the opinion that while none of it should be outright banned, all of the extreme content listed on the poll should be turned off by default for any new users (and if possible for all current users in a one-time sweep). This way it’s opt in and anyone viewing said content has knowingly consented.
Unless someone is verifying ages of even non-nude models from tiktok compilations, any minors that end up in one of those comps with porn imagery means it’s CP. Similarly, tiktok/youtube videos with minors hosted on an adult site (pornhub,spankbang, etc) with pornographic material makes it CP. At least with mainstream studio and OF/ManyVids content, there is the layer of age verification at work, both at the creator end and the hosting. Didn’t this issue get addressed with a couple compilation videos that had to be taken down recently?
However we all know that’s just a veneer of plausible deniability that puts the responsibility onto a performer and the viewer, studios large and small as well as performers have all seen legal action because of minors’ involvement, it’s no secret. Minors cannot consent, regardless your position on viewership - lord knows plenty of us got our grubby teenage hands on porn.
Speaking of thinnest veneers of plausible deniability… animated loli/shota are depictions of minors engaged in sexual acts. “But they’re a 2000 year old shape shifter” is wink-and-nudge bullshit rationalization to detract from the issue: it is erotic content depicting minors. “But according to lore…” - Yeah, lore created to circumvent the issue with content of minors engaged in sex acts in a kind of freshman sophistry useful only to people who want to view content with minors engaged in sex acts.
There is no slippery slope, here. Gore porn? Are the actors consenting/are they depictions of consenting adults?. Bestiality? Animals cannot consent. LGBTQ content? Are the actors consenting/are they depictions of consenting age?. We have a litmus test already.
First of all, connecting LGBTQ to these issues is deeply troubling and for lack of a better phrase just dead wrong, whether said in sarcasm or not. Secondly, implying that everything is grey with the intent of ignoring that black and white/right and wrong do indeed exist, is the definition of bad-faith. Standards do exist, consent is a binary issue with no grey area, and freedoms do not come without responsibility attached.
On the topic at hand: There is, in the HowTo area, a tutorial on the use of tags. In the initiation mail, the tags are mentioned and also referred to the settings menu. But I also have no problem if said tags are switched to mute by default and explicitly pointed out in the initiation mail. It would be nice if another tag is also muted at first, so that the (seamingly incapable) user learns how to add and remove tags.
But I don’t think it’s good to lump the whole community together here. There are users who like this content. To call them all pedofiles, rapists, and so on, is just out of line.
quote=“johntaylor1980, post:1, topic:121920”]
like 4 scripters making, arguably, a whole load of people uncomfortable visiting EroScripts.
[/quote]
If I am one of them it is really easy. I will leave, if I make the whole community uncomfortable. I will remove all my scripts and go. I also think all scripters that published any Loli or beast scripts should go, to make this community a better place. Let creators like johntailor run this community. Let his scripts be the measurement.
This is such an absurd argument because it completely ignores that drawings are not able to consent in an entirely different way from how animals and children are not able to consent. Drawings are not able to consent in the same way a sex doll or dildo can’t consent. Are we going to ban those? And trying to flip around the “are they depictions of consenting age” thing is absurd as well because as far as I know no right-thinking country has ever tried to prosecute someone for engaging in or producing age-play content with a consenting adult.
The fundamental difference between stuff that is right to ban and stuff that is wrong to ban is harm and victimization. Nobody is harmed or victimized by the production of animated material, especially of the variety that seems to be the subject of debate here. There is not some bizarre ephemeral harm to children everywhere caused by this stuff existing unless you are capable of demonstrating otherwise. If someone wants to talk about images that attempt a level of realism then that might be a different subject because it gets into murky territory where there might be a real model that they’re trying to depict, but we’re talking about japanese cartoons which don’t even look like real people even when they try to imitate specific individuals.
I like the idea of setting the default tags to “vanilla” stuff and having then allowing the other content by changing your tags allowed in the profile.
In terms of what content is allowed, I think that should be more up to the jurisdiction of where this website is hosted for legality issues, and we should allow more if possible, but keeping the vanilla stuff shown by default can help grow the site a bit better perhaps.
I get the point that you are trying to make but the comparison is not the same thing.
CP laws are meant to protect children. If no children are being harmed but CP laws are still applied then then freedom of speech is being violated and no good is being done. I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but in the US if my speech or actions do not infringe on the rights of other or directly call for or cause violence or harm then it is protected speech.
I don’t think anyone should ever try to prevent anyone else from expressing themselves peacefully. Even the most abhorrent ideologies should be allowed to spew their filth. Let each individual decide if it is something they want to allow into their life or if they would like to shut it out. People are not reliable instruments for determining how moral things are. We are all just sacks filled with water and bias.
The nephew I refer to in my previous posts has an addiction problem because his stepdad abused (molested) him from the ages of 5-7. I have zero tolerance for anyone that even remotely looks like they are getting aroused at imagery that looks like children participating in sexual behavior… period. I will never bend on this and I will always look at those people with disgust. Period and justly so.
To be quite frank, that is a personal you-problem and you are here joining a couple others stirring shit up over it. No actual kids here are being hurt, no one here would tolerate content of actual kids being hurt, and any of that content is willingly viewed at this point with how often the tag stuff has been brought up. You also won’t interact with anyone about such topics or see it if you stay out of them. Ya need to either walk away from pushing stuff on others or leave the site. I am so fed up with this topic popping up every other month it’s ridiculous it hasn’t been finalized the last hundred times things have settled as nothing changing.
Sick of litigation never ending until those who have a problem get their way.
then leave the comunity if you are fed up with it lmao thay are fake people thay are not real at all its cgi hell most of the voice overs of the charicters are fully grone adults dont like the thing block the tag and move on its that simple you are willingly looking at a thing you hate and getting mad that you are looking at it just stop if it were real people in the videos ya destroy that content and give the ops ip to the fbi asap but thay are cgi and are voiced by adults
also eavin if the tag got removed anime fans would still post it with out a tag because this dragon girl is actuly 100000000000000000000 years old she just looks 12 because thats how dragon ageing works thay look 18 when thay are 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years old and you cant ask a cgi charicter for thare id to check age so you need to calm down sisyphus and give up on this fight
Of course all of this only works when the poster adds the appropriate tags. Many a time I see posts with zero or minimal tags and loli posts with no loli tag. Can Discourse be set up to prompt a poster before they submit a new post to confirm that their post doesn’t contain X, Y, Z materials and if it does, have they assigned the appropriate tag?
Apologies I haven’t been checking the forum today and I don’t have much time to read this thread deeply, so I’ll be checking back in probably tomorrow. I switched the thread into slow mode (30 minute interval between posts) to hopefully keep things a little more chill
I just wanted to say quickly that I’ve found the setting in the discourse admin settings that would let me have certain tags hidden by default, which is seeming like it will be the way to go. Especially if done in conjunction with a change to the new user welcome message encouraging them to explore the default tag settings if they’re interested in certain niche content.
(also fwiw because I saw it mentioned when I skimmed the thread, I don’t consider gay/lesbian/trans content to be valid candidates for off-by-default tags)
