Let's set a community standard for tolerated content

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84

Hosted has absolutely no meaning in law. If targeted towards EU users, it has to obey the EU law.

And yes, there are impossible to resolve conflicts here (privacy laws colliside massively). And only in those cases, since the site has to take some baseline, and unless its a multinational, it can set a certain location as base (in this case US).
Those laws even go that far that microsoft isnt even allowed to process the data of EU users in the US.

It even goes that far that EULAs in some cases arent even valid in the EU. Globaly targeted sites go by diffirent rules.

But a site is allowed to use a certain country as base for its own rules. And in this case following the US preferred rules makes most sense. So a site can state things to be disallowed even if the EU explicitly allows it (freedom of speech isnt always existing).

Being informative about certain cases and how to look at it from a more neutral standpoint.

I dont like loli, but since they are nearly always based on anime characters… im not going to judge whether it should be allowed or not. I just would like it to be able to block it from my feed. And since discourse does allow personal preferences, it would be a nice addition.

But to remove loli entirely, i think this would just backfire. Even though it might be undesired, the alternative might often be worse.

And to make things even more extreme in how much on the edge it can be, what if the creator of the loli animation was a CP offender? What to do with those videos then? There isnt even a clear intention on why it was made in those cases (the offender might have made it to reduce his urge and risk the chance of doing a repeated offense). But this is where judges have to do their task.

The sad thing might be, once its on the internet it stays there forever. But by making it known to be illegal, some things can be prevented. However, this should never be the task of this site to monitor. At most they get a takedown request and thats it (and as most of such content is hosted on mega. mega gets those requests usualy).

CP just like rape is illegal. And PH already blocked all rapeplay videos even if it was clear it was an act with consent for both people. Rapeplay is entirely legal, yet PH blocked it. This is how much of a discussion it actualy is. Loli is equaly on the edge to that. It however has a major advantage: its cgi animated content. Which on its own is proof of it not hurting someone, where for rapeplay its very hard to prove.

Realy, these things go far. And im not surprised there never were any rules made about it. But at the same time, i think they did that deliberately. Its not endorsing anything that way, but also by avoiding punishment it still keeps an option open for those who desire.

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85

Aslong as its in cartoon or hentai form i wouldnt care tbh. The loli stuff is on the edge if anything the rest is just nonsense.

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This is some top tier fear mongering. Lets get something out of the way first, you CAN NOT be prosecuted for simply VISITING a site that is LEGALLY hosting something, downloading is a grey area, visiting is not, unless you’re visiting a site where the content is illegally hosted, e.g. real CP.
Like it or not, it IS legal for loli content to be hosted here.

PH already blocked all rapeplay videos even if it was clear it was an act with consent for both people. Rapeplay is entirely legal, yet PH blocked it.

It was also entirely legal for pornhub to continue to host rape play, they removed it to cover their own legal ass since yes, it can be hard to prove what is real and what isn’t and a lot of genuine rape and revenge porn was uploaded, they took the route of completely sanitizing the site, frankly ruining the site in the process IMO. They did not remove absolutely everything because they were legally forced to.

what if the creator of the loli animation was a CP offender?

Literally means nothing, what if they’re a murderer, human trafficker, satan worshiper? Intention means absolutely nothing legally or morally.

Honestly the long rambling posts about what we thing are legal or not are fucking worthless, we are not legal experts. If you want to have a discussion on the morally of porn depicting illegal topics then sure by all means. If it wasn’t obvious yet, I think its not only okay, I think its necessary. Rape porn, loli hentai, ultra gore snuff porn, all of it SHOULD be completely legal. It’s fucking insane for people to think that any of this should be illegal. No different to the age old argument of violent video games, or the devil possessing rock music.

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87

That is completely true. And the law in the EU is gracefull enough that even if a site is dedicated to it, that upon first visit they could still consider it an accidental visit (its very likely people dont know those sites).

But since this site isnt targeted toward it (and loli being legal anyway), this site has no issues at all.

I would have required them to do a lot more verification though. Currently pornhub does still allow somewhat anonymous uploads, for those videos that wouldnt be an option, and they didnt want to go that way.

In law intention does have meaning. Although usualy its used to distinguish the type of case rather than its severity. But doing something knowing that others will break the law is usualy based on a case of intention. If you didnt know it was illegal, you generaly will be punished less, yet if you knew and wanted to frame others, that is usualy punished more. Intention does matter. Maybe not for loli, but as im not a lawyer i cannot know all these details. The hardest part is however proving these things (by default they dont assume intention for a good reason).

But do note. The pirate bay while not hosting anything itself, did only share links. And is considered illegal because its intention was to spread pirated content. They did everything to circumvent laws, but because of intent it was clear: the site itself is illegal.

The only reason why these cases are a problem is because some people do spread it around to hurt others. Some monitoring is welcome to avoid those cases. And luckily since we often rely on mega, PH, SB and a lot of open platforms, its not up to us to decide. All those sites have proper takedown procedures.

Yet thats often how laws go. They follow a popular oppinion of something that is regarded unwanted. A lot of laws are existing purely because of that. And even governments are often bad at deciding which cases make sense and which dont.
Some of those laws are over 100y old but nobody ever decided to take the time to scrap it (takes time and in court those laws would instantly end up being destroyed/negated).

Things are often strange.

But luckily, we can just rely on other sites for monitoring and just post whatever. Some might not like the images that go along with it. But loli on that isnt diffirent to trans, or maybe even a rick roll. Its expected to see some of it on this site, but thats why i hope the filtering system would work a bit better to avoid most of the undesired content.

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88

The filtering system and blacklisting is good enough as-is, I would much rather everything be visible by default, rather than potentially missing something that I didn’t know existed on the site.

Eroscripts is not responsible for someone with thin skin getting offended at seeing a thumbnail of one form of content or another. If someone made the same post about all the gay and trans content on the site, there’d be a lot more outrage, and people telling them to shut up, and rightfully so.

At most, a message telling you how to blacklist and immediately prompting you to when you first make an account would be enough.

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89

And here lies an issue, the whitelist goes above the blacklist. So if there is anything you like, that content gets shown even when another tag marked it as blacklist. Potentialy still causing unwanted content.

An improvement here would be quite a QoL feature to have. As more control about these things is after all a good thing.

So while you consider it good as-is. Its still lacking a certain aspect that for others can matter. For someone that likes PMV but doesnt want gay/trans content. The lack of this feature is still a downside. No matter how you call it, that they are forced to get these through their feed is a bad thing.

And thats ignoring a potential variety in notifications and thread list preferences. There is almost always an option for improvement at these things.

90

What are you going on about with the whitelist and blacklist? A PMV tagged with trans with a user who mutes the trans tag won’t show up in their feed. Users should also remain aware of what they are clicking on and if they end up seeing something they don’t fancy that’s the users error. The home interface is set to categories which doesn’t show thumbnails if you’re concerned with anyone seeing unwanted content upon first entering the site. I agree with ATFM that the way of self censoring content is substantial and if there is an improvement to be made it would be a prompt upon first creating an account with the extra adage of muting tags as a training tutorial.

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91

It’s amazing how people are so quick to try to ruin things for others because they personally dislike it. Like this thread was made with the pretense to simply ban anything ““legally questionable”” without even the chance of discussing ways to get it out of the way of users who didn’t want to see it. Thankfully, other users at least tried to pick up the slack and propose real solutions involving tagging/filters.

I’m definitely all for making it so that people don’t have to view stuff they aren’t into, but who made you king of this site OP? Your argument pretends to be objective by citing the idea of legal ambiguity when it comes to things like loli. But I’m sure there’s a lot of porn or hell even non-lewd things that you have consumed that are most assuredly illegal in other countries. Should your media be censored/removed to be accessible to them? I don’t think you’d agree if this was something you were into. Moreover, If this was illegal where the site was hosted then eroscripts would be down already.

But the reality is you are just trying to say that you don’t like those things… which is fine. but don’t try and masquerade your opinions and feelings as some moral obligation that we should be ashamed for not following. It’s disingenuous arguing that way and it’s not going to convince anyone that wasn’t already in agreement with you when you try to imply that.

The real problem is tagging, which honestly is a bit troublesome. Stuff doesn’t always get properly tagged and there are often multiple tags for the same thing, which can lead to people seeing stuff they might not want to. I think having the discussion be about that would be much more productive than the endless argument of “is loli okay or not”; which is a discussion that’s probably going to go until the heat death of the universe.

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As far as I’m concerned, there’s no need to not “tolerate” something that is legal in the United States. While imperfect historically, when it comes to preserving individual freedoms, it is head and shoulders above all other nations in the world when it comes to preserving freedom of expression today.

That said, I want to address some really bad misinformation I’ve seen several people post. Pornography does not cause people to undertake actions of any kind. Just as consumption of violent entertainment does not cause people to become violent. This isn’t an opinion. This is an observed fact.

When you look at the possessions of someone who has been convicted of a crime, and find “entertainment” products related to that crime, this does not show a cause and effect relationship. It is a basic and, frankly speaking, idiotic logical fallacy to think such a relationship does exist. People who commit violent crimes are people who enjoy violence. They will have violent media in their possession for the same reason. It’s a common cause scenario - predisposition to violence creates a likelihood of consuming violent media and perpetrating violence.

Same scenario applies when talking about sex crimes. Someone convicted of rape is someone predisposed to sexual violence. It’s likely that this predisposition will cause said person to also be in possession of rape-base pornography, whether fictional or real. There’s no causal relationship between the consumption of that media and the crime. There’s a common cause shared between the two.

And the same applies to sex crimes specifically tied to abnormal psychology such as pedophilia (which is a state of mind, not an action, just like homosexuality). It would be almost unheard of for a person convicted of sexually abusing a pre-pubescent child to not have pornography depicting such behavior. Again, there’s no causal relationship there. It’s a common cause leading to both the possession of such material and the commission of such crimes.

These are basic facts about human psychology which anyone can see from personal experience with just a little thought. Just recall what happened when you were really angry at some point in the past and ended up throwing something, punching a wall, etc. You felt less angry after the outlet. That’s how humans operate - provide an outlet, and the emotional pressure releases. I don’t think I need to explain how this likewise applies to sexual arousal, given the site we’re on.

So when it comes to behaviors we absolutely do not want present in society, allowing a virtual outlet is the correct answer. Some people are going to offend regardless. Most will not offend regardless (i.e. almost none of the people who suffer from pedophilia ever do anything to a child). In between are people balancing on an edge, and if you give them an outlet for their pent-up desires, they’ll avoid doing any actual harm. If you deny them such an outlet, you’ll increase the likelihood of them doing harm.

People arguing against loli or other deviant content have no rational leg to stand on. If no real person was hurt in the production of something, there’s no actual harm - quite the opposite, for the reasons I outline above. If you don’t like a particular kind of content, then just ignore it. If you live in a backwards nation which criminalizes even being exposed to such content (which does not include any first-world nations, hyperbolic claims here notwithstanding), then you’re probably not legally allowed to be here at all. Either go do something else, or get yourself a good VPN.

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93

There’s already a community standard for tolerated content, and currently according to the poll 51% of people seem to agree on it. There is a tag system that lets you avoid all of this - USE IT! I say this as someone who avoids all content mentioned in the poll like the plague - with the one-off exception of what I’m about to discuss below.

There are a number of things about all this I find incredibly disingenuous, but let’s focus on just one. Let’s see if OP is so keen on having a ‘discussion’ when it’s not going his way. Despite advocating for all these topics being banned, his activity on this site is interesting (read: deplorably hypocritical).

OP voted for handy integration on this game. The first post has links to the sex scenes, such as this one (WARNING: loli content). Can OP tell us how old the girl is at the 2 minute mark of that link? How about at 35:05? Can OP explain why animations of sex with these characters is OK when they look so young?

The second link in that post has parts where the character turns into a dog that runs around on all fours and gets fucked - oh wait I’m sorry, It’s OK because weird succubus magic turned the player into a ‘furry’, not an actual dog, right? Guess we’ll have to ban that game.

He voted for handy integration on this game. The very first post there has a link to the sex scenes, (WARNING: contains some very non-consensual looking sex acts and sex with fantasy animals). It’s telling that OP goes out of his way in his post to say that fake animals/monsters are fine, but real ones or not. Saying ‘it’s actually a flying impregnation wasp monster so it’s OK, it just looks like an animal’ seems real close to the ‘she’s actually a 12000 year old dragon so it’s OK, she just looks like a child’ logic in my book. Guess we’ll have to ban that game too.

Oh, OP doesn’t agree because he likes furries and fantasy animal fucking? I guess he missed what Defucilis said in the last topic discussing this:

consider in that topic that banning lolicon because it’s offputting to a majority of users might mean banning other kinds of content that is similarly offputting

If others consider that character to be a dog instead of a ‘furry’, well I guess that’s too bad for OP.

Let’s set a community standard for hypocrisy. I don’t think OP meets it. This is what happens when you move to ban content you don’t like OP, it can be a hell of a double edged sword.

So, what do we want to ban again?

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94

Discourse seems to priotize watching over muted. Need someone to confirm this is still the case.

For example, a user enjoying HMV but not furry may add hmv to their watched list and furry to their muted list. A topic about furry-themed HMV has both of these tags, it will show up in their Latest because they are watching hmv.

My solution is not to use the automatic watch/track feature for tags. Instead add these tags to your navigation menu and access them from there. Browsing this way will respect your muted tag. You can also turn on the unread counts in your settings.
image

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95

Absolutely hit the nail on the head! As far as I’m concerned, if no REAL person was harmed in the making/distribution of a thing, that thing is okay, no exceptions (Unless I’m missing something very obvious).

I want to circle back to the original post and content that sparked this debate. This thread. And in particular this video from DLsite [3DCGI Loli Warning]

I believe the argument was that it’s more realistic than most 2D loli art that is posted here, but I simply cannot see how any functioning human being could mistake this for a real person.

I believe this content should be allowed, how it should be tagged I guess would be up to moderators, but I personally think the loli tag is sufficient.

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96

The topic has a tag that I’m watching, and no tags that I would deem concerning - hentai game titfuck machine femdom succubus for the reference of people not clicking through. Since this is just a request, I did open it to upvote on autopilot and move on. As a rule, I don’t watch 2-hour sex scene compilations to make sure that a topic has been tagged accurately. Or spend time reading/watching previews in general, otherwise I wouldn’t be near 3k topics viewed in 2d read time.

I’ll keep this in mind for the integration, however, which was released and also lacks the tags that your post is implying, thank you.

The same story with this game - I upvoted a request with a futanari tag and moved on with my browsing without making sure to watch a 40-minute video. If it has scenes involving something plausibly resembling real animals, I’m perfectly content with including it in my proposal. Which is precisely why I don’t feel particularly hypocritical about the premise of this topic - animated bestiality is not illegal where I’m at, but I recognise that it ought to not be the same for a lot of other people here. Contrary to what some posts allege, my goal is to maximize the number of existing ES users that don’t consider visiting or recommending the site to others to be genuinely risky.

What is a bit hypocritical, on the other hand, is a user with a private activity profile poring over activity profiles of others to start shit.

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I’ll say it again, this is utter bullshit, there is absolutely no legal risk to anyone simply visiting this site, zero. Stop using this as the backbone to your arguments. The legality of this is not in question.

You’re trying to take the moral highground on what is a censorship issue, you are not going to die from seeing a loli, I’m not going to die from seeing ‘trans pill popper gooning PMV #54’

I have zero interest in gay or trans scripts, but I would not dare take that away from anyone who does like it.

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98

I’m personally indifferent to this stuff being banned. I don’t like the content and have no interest in seeing anything about this type of content in my daily scroll through the site. However, I am someone that likes freedoms to be pretty open-ended for people even when I don’t necessarily agree or downright dislike what someone else does with their freedom.

So if we would rather embrace the “cosmic fairness” argument, I think there should be a toggleable filter in account settings that has this content’s viewability off by default so that new members won’t see it unless they manually enable the ability to view it. This would make it possible for the people interested in that content to still have this forum to share their stuff, but it won’t impede everyone else’s experience on the site.

Alternatively, you could make a rule that disallows any thumbnails or gif to be in these posts. That way we won’t have to see any visual media of it if a post including this stuff shows up in the feed or search results mixed in with normal results.

Edit:
After some more reflection, discussion and thought about what is essentially a grey-area censorship issue. I can understand why these topics are in a grey area: they exist on a border of illegal content which can spark some feeling of justification for banning them outright. However, because the legality is not in question at all here like the OP explains, I believe we must preserve the freedoms for all people that choose to use this site and avoid a slippery slope of censorship.

It looks like the best course of action is not to ban anything unless it poses direct legal action against the owners of eroscripts, and instead grant us an easy to use blacklist tagging system that hides posts with certain tags from our view. I don’t know how difficult/easy something like that is to implement or if it’s even possible on the current framework that the search feature functions on. Ultimately, I fully support whatever decision eroscript’s owners and moderators choose to do going forward.

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I disagree, I think having anything off by default is bad for discoverability, people can grow some thick skin and see something they don’t like once, before blacklisting it.

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100

That’s fair, I didn’t think of that. I definitely have thick enough skin to agree with that.

I guess then I’d mainly just want an easy to find, blacklist option.

(If there is a blacklist option already available, I’m sorry I honestly didn’t know)

101

I hope you know and can see that those are two very different things (comparing Loli content with Gay/Trans content). What’s wrong with certain tags being muted so that our community can grow a bit more? We had people leave this community already cause of that content being visible on the front page. Not to mention that one of our biggest members on here had some trouble a few days ago cause of that content and now he has to clear house and fix everything up a bit for his Patreon.

Thick skin yadayada. I am not even sure why I did comment on your post with you just having joined two days ago and then also being a stalker with looking up others activities and posts… Were you already one of our members? :stuck_out_tongue:

107

Slightly off-topic with this comment.

The top 4 posters to this thread have contributed zero scripts, are not patrons, and have only requested scripts; Perhaps they have purchased scripts from other users. Food for thought when it comes to proposing rules to a “community” that you don’t really involve yourself in.

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108

That’s just the 1% rule. Of course the majority of people in a community are just consumers, that doesn’t mean they aren’t important. Without the 90% you don’t have a community.

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