Update to self post edit time limit + deletion guidelines

General Site Updates
42

Fuck, fuck and fuck.
The ban on editing original topics breaks completely my concept of posting scripts.
Should I not publish them for free now?

I hope the guys keeping the forum running understand the legal aspect.
It turns out that if a user decides to delete all their threads with scripts (which are intellectual property) - they are obliged to do it or it falls under “piracy”.
Until yesterday, the guys provided a platform and did not influence the published content in any way, leaving it to the conscience of the community - now I feel quite strong restrictions on “freedom of publication” and I feel uncomfortable.

43

Having read through the thread I’m at a bit of a loss as to why this is being introduced. The reason given appears to be that the mod team are against a user removing the scripts that they previously made and are now bringing in a rule which will limit some peoples desires to make new scripts.

It’s possible i am misunderstanding the reasoning behind this decision and if so im happy to hear them out. From my own point of view I dont edit a lot of my own posts down the line but I had one just yesterday where two of my links had gone down and I needed to update with new ones and under the new rules I wont be able to do this.

I might be making assumptions here but with most of the posts the replies are of lower importance over all and so if a reply gets deleted when someone edits a post then no big deal.

Finally from a strictly personal point of view it sucks that the mods didnt even consult the patreon backers.

3 Likes
44

I joined this site in March and I’ve had to do that since day 1, because the Mega link in the OP had expired or whatever. I basically now just jump to the end and scroll up to the most recent link.

For me it’s new and -updated- posts. I hit “Free Scripts” in the left nav bar and scroll through that until I get to the blue line showing where my last visit was. I hardly ever search - I just glance through those ones at the top of the “free” list, whether they be new or edited.

FWIW, I feel that if you make a post, you should be able to edit or delete it. Yes it can leave holes in the history or such, but sometimes people make mistakes or say the wrong things so people should have the option to correct that. Just my opinion.

2 Likes
45

I won’t be posting content under these rules.

46

I don’t like this decision.
Please Reconsideration about this guidelines.

5 Likes
47

I have not left yet, but I will be out starting tomorrow so I leave it up to the other mods to make any further decisions. But I do have other obligations, so I only check this site like once a day.

No, we’re not selling out or anything. Nothing has changed about site administration or funding. I’m extremely grateful that user donations have been covering the hosting costs over the last couple months.

Normally, I would prefer to take time to consider changes and get feedback first. This change was a knee jerk reaction to stop the bleeding of a seemingly random mass deletion of someone’s topics/scripts. Genuinely not talking bad about that user, just that after some back and forth and a bunch of edit-deletions, they changed their mind and no longer want to delete everything. Had we not made the edit changes and allowed the deletion or allowed the self-edit-deletes, I would argue that the site would be worse off for it minus the controversy.

Regarding editing/inability to edit, I’m not sure if the whole editable wiki post recommendation was missed or not. If you have a topic that does need frequent updating, a wiki post should get the job done. If needed, we can raise the trust level requirements for editing wiki posts to prevent griefing, though I doubt that would actually be a problem. (It might be that much older topics need to have a mod turn them into wiki posts unfortunately)

I still think that the edit length issue is more complicated than just allowing anyone to edit forever into the future. Remember that edit privileges are not too far off from delete privileges. If I had to put it simply, allowing it gives the topic creators a ton of power, potentially to the detriment of everyone else. And consider what effect this has to the forum across a longer period of time. Is that the right dynamic? Hard to say. For example, if I were to nuke my entire account, things that would basically disappear are the rules, announcements, and the entirety of the Archived scripts from RTS. Or if someone else made an old topic on an open source software or a howto guide (and perhaps those topics had a lot of community engagement/contribution), that might effectively be deleted too.

There’s a lot of implicit rules that were never discussed in the history of this forum. For example, if we were any other (discourse) forum with default settings, you would have never had this edit ability. Many other sites operate with and without long term user editing/deletion, it’s kind of a tossup.

IANAL, from a purely legal perspective, I believe anything posted on a discourse forum is considered creative commons. GDPR applies only to personally identifiable data, which the large majority of content posted here does not contain. And a general thought is that anything you post on the internet, you should assume will be available on the internet forever. Again, is this the right setting for this site? Hard to say, but it’s something to think about.

Note: I’m reading both this and the boycot topic so I may be mixing up my responses to both

3 Likes
48

okay i need to pack

other mods feel free to chime in

49

I think multiple examples were given in this thread where changing to a wiki would not be the correct use case, except if you expect all script topics to be wikis.

I’d argue that your change to avoid that made the site worse off, plenty of creators updated their topics to make them better.

Yeah a site admin can nuke the site they’re the admin of, I don’t think that’s a good argument one way or another.

But we did, it’s not the same thing to never have something and to have something taken away.

That is certainly not true, your own ToS states that we keep ownership on any content we post. If that’s not what’s intended, you should update the ToS.

1 Like
50

I really don’t think it needs to be more complicated than that.

I understand the concept that deleting a comment or topic leaves gaps and makes things less neat. However, the scripts and things we post should be considered our own intellectual property to do with as we please.

I’m not saying I want to see it happen, but I think a user SHOULD be able to “nuke” their account if they choose to do so. I think a user SHOULD be able to go back and edit each of their posts to be monetized instead of free if they choose to do so, or to change an old script to a new updated version, or make new preview gifs, or add to a script collection, or fix a typo, or any one of a million non-malicious reasons a person could want to edit a post.

Without the ability to edit or remove content, I fear the scripting portion of this site will become awfully quiet awfully quickly.

Is there a way to make editing/deleting possible without deleting an entire topic and its associated comments?

Edit: I just edited this post for clarity. I used “it’s” at the end instead of “its.” :man_shrugging:t2:

6 Likes
51

This gets brought up a lot. To me it is better to consider what kind of forum EroScripts is than how a Discourse forum usually works.

I suppose a typical Discourse forum puts emphasis on discussions, where the topic post is simply an initiation for the stream of conversation that arrives after. This is why the integrity of conversations matters a lot and edit / deletion can be harmful.

Eroscript (particularly the Scripts and Software category) is centred around the topic post where the script / software is hosted. The subsequent replies are usually comments on the topic post and are not necessarily a connected flow of discussion. If there are any, the outcome of it usually gets reflected on the topic post. No creators expects their reader to go through all the replies just so they can find the download link for the latest release.

Wiki-post is one way to resolve the issue of editing, though it leaves a security loophole behind which needs to be safe-guarded by the moderation team. My question is, if we are confident to prevent malicious edit by heightening the pressure on our staff member, why don’t we use the same strategy to stop self-nuking?

Here’s perhaps another example of why the editing feature is needed.
https://discuss.eroscripts.com/t/gishinaki-kangxi-sex-blender-eevee/120892/4?u=falafel

2 Likes
52

Creating scripts is our job for a lot of us.
We live, we eat, we sleep because we made it.
You are not allowed to tell us how we have to manage our proper jobs. Did we tell to how to manage your job when you don’t cancel what’s ours?

It’s not because we never have to edit our job that this is a reason to prohibit it today. For what?

In a word: we did it because we had the peace of mind to be able to do it. otherwise, I would have gone to Reddit, Realsync or others.

I found that Eroscript was ok, we could be creative freely, we owed nothing to anyone. Except that we have now judged that we could be dangerous for ourselves and our basic rights are being taken away.

It’s outrageous.

We are not your kids under your responsibility, and we owe you nothing.
We delete our content if we want. What’s the difference? Do you think others won’t take over?

Calm down with us, honestly. If you’re that dependent on our work, buy it!

1 Like
53

Ownership doesnt mean the site isnt required to enable you to remove that data directly. Removal through moderator interaction is still fine for ownership related things.

Sites are allowed to implement methods to negate the effects of hacks and other malicious actions. And protecting posts from edits is one of those things.

Even the GDPR agrees on this end by requiring people to take a bit more effort to do a GDPR request (which again is also done because fake requests are a possible thing online).

In most cases its even valid to store GDPR related data in backups for a decade. As long as upon restoring you can be sure such information is filtered out again. Ownership doesnt mean they are required to remove that data from their backup either. They just cannot use that data again.

Being able to modify a backup is in a good backup system illegal to do, as that spoils its validity. Backups must be immutable for security reasons.

2 Likes
54

I can see your point, but in your case I really really would watch out how loud you scream with you sharing other creators stuff on your Patreon. You can still go to Reddit or other communities and share your paid links over there too. Nobody stops you. Hugecat is calm. It’s people like you that immediately screamed from the highest mountain (but that’s one him too with just going with the change at first).

If that whole scripting thing is such a big thing and important money maker for you, then I would really suggest you keeping Kemono clean and not scripting other creators videos without their permission (yes, CGI clips). I know for a fact that some creators now started to look out for people sharing their stuff on Patreon with scripts which is why I stopped sharing those things directly.

It’s a job for you and not a way to interact with a community or otherwise you would try to post your things at least in English… No harm intended, but that’s what I noticed.

People should have access to edit their own threads (forever) and posts in other topics for XX days like most other forums. Everyone already posting paid stuff is not an issue in that case. Updates could (as some do already now) just be posted in that very same thread. People that want to make their free stuff suddenly paid can edit their posts - in that case you need a solution, because everyone that can see edits can just easily grab the script from the edited post (past).

Like with other forums you can request a deletion of your account, posts will be marked as deleted, but user history with an anon ID will still be available. If there is any private data that whole posts needs to be nuked. That’s how it works with most other stuff nowadays.

There is also the thing with this community being 50% community members that act like a community and 50% being shills that are just there for the money (not you, companies in that case).

3 Likes
55

Thanks for your return.
J’espère juste que je ne te manque pas trop de respect en parlant ma langue.
Cependant, je vais le faire cette fois-ci, vu que tu as remarqué que j’étais français mais que visiblement ça ne t’ennuie pas.

Vois moi comme vénal autant que tu veux, il peut être possible que l’on fasse un travail qu’on apprécie.
J’aime tellement les scripts que j’ai décidé d’en faire une part telle de ma vie que j’ai décidé d’en vivre. Alors c’est peut être moche d’être une pompe à argent, toujours de ton point de vue, mais je respecte toujours mon éthique. Je ne suis pas éthéré, j’ai faim, soif, et la vie en France devient de pire en pire.

J’aime la communauté de Eroscript que j’ai toujours respecté. Je vends des scripts, pas des vidéos. Je ne relègue que ce qui est légalement autorisé. Si tu vois mes liens, je n’ai rien à me reprocher. J’ai déja été en contact avec Kemono, mais j’ai laissé tomber parce que je me suis dit que de toute manière si les gens vont dessus, c’est sans doute pour certains motifs.
Mon travail se fait voler. C’est triste mais je peux rien faire. Au moins, certaines personnes qui n’en ont pas forcément les moyens peuvent accéder à un travail qui leur plait. Je vais pas entrer en guerre contre ça. C’est pas grave. Si c’est pas Kemono, c’est autre chose.

Tu peux défendre les modos si tu veux, personne les attaque. On revendique des trucs. Je te rappelerai qu’il n’y a pas de syndicats des scripteurs, on est le syndicat. Si on laisse passer ça, gratuit ou payant, nos conditions sont menacées.

C’est tout.

English version (because some people didn’t know Google Translate and doesn’t support some other languages to some useless blahblah and after we are so mean to create something different)

Call me money maker all you want, it might be possible to do work you enjoy.
I love scripts so much that I decided to make them such a part of my life that I decided to make a living from them. So maybe it’s ugly to be a money pump, still from your point of view, but I always respect my ethics. I am not ethereal, I am hungry, thirsty, and life in France is getting worse and worse.

I love the Eroscript community, which I have always respected. I sell scripts, not videos. I only relegate what is legally permitted. If you see my links, I have nothing to complain about. I have already been in contact with Kemono, but I gave up because I told myself that if people go there anyway, it is probably for certain reasons.
My work is being stolen. It’s sad but there’s nothing I can do. At least some people who don’t necessarily have the means can access work they like. I’m not going to go to war against that. It doesn’t matter. If it’s not Kemono, it’s something else.

You can defend the mods if you want, no one attacks them. We claim things. I will remind you that there are no writers’ unions, we are the union. If we let this pass, free or paid, our conditions are threatened.

That’s all.

56

My post wasn’t meant to say “Yeah I know you obviously speak french so it’s fine doing that to me”, but more like, “if you act like a community member maybe start to post in English?”. Also yes you share video content from other CGI creators with their works in compilations in them. Things on here will be changed accordingly. Man I love that many of the posters in here do not even really contribute to the community.

3 Likes
57

А что? так можно было? публиковать на родном для тебя языке, а не на английском? :slight_smile:

I have a good story from my life - long story to tell. But the moral - write in the language that is accepted as the main language :wink:

4 Likes
58

Получается так, открываем русский отдел ероскрипт)

3 Likes
59

:joy::joy::joy: go ahead bro, be free!

60

Did you maybe misquote me and wanted to quote something else?
The part from me you’re quoting was a reply to hugecat asserting that everything we post here is automatically licensed under creative commons, which is false.

Nowhere did I say that we are required to be able to edit, but I’d argue that we should, since we were and it worked fine, except, as hugecat said, in a handful of cases. I still think that the cure is worse than the disease so to speak.

61

What do you mean by “contribute to the community”? If you mean (only) creating/uploading scripts, then no, I don’t contribute. I don’t know how to create a script and to be honest, I’m not hugely motivated to learn.

However if you look at my post history you’ll find that I’ve replaced a lot of missing video files from people’s posts after Mega links expired or tube take-downs and that I’ve imported and re-shared other people’s videos so they can delete their copies or I’ve uploaded higher-res versions of the original scene. Doesn’t all that count as contributing, even if I don’t do anything with scripts?

I don’t like blanket statements such as “people don’t contribute” where unless you’ve looked at each persons’ site history and know what they’ve done, you can’t possibly say truthfully that it is the case.

Regardless, we shouldn’t be sniping at each other - the majority verdict seems to be to allow editing on posts for extended/unlimited time so the focus should be communicating that, not taking shots on each other.

1 Like