You do realise that by adding the “Loli” tag, you have removed this from the feed of everyone who has an issue with “loli” content, and as such are removing them from this discussion?
Not a good thing to do, you are just creating an echo chamber.
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whow whow whow
I didn’t wanted someone to think that way. I just didn’t wanted people who find these topic dangerous not to see it at the first place.
What am I suppose to do? leave this post so people can discuss about this topic that might contain harmful life threatening content to some individuals? I really am confused right now.
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People have the ability to block loli/shota furry etc. content in their preferences so it doesn’t show up in their feeds.
Deffo leave the post, this is a topic that I think does need discussed.
And for certain, don’t feel bad about creating it, at least you asked the question.
Yeah, I now know that, thanks to this thread.
However, it then asks the question, do you want to be associated with a community that allows such content to be distributed? You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows.
Just a reminder that the issue proposed by this topic is:
And it has been answered by the mods:
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The obvious answer, you have the choice to associate yourself with this scripting community or not and the guidelines within the community will be enforced.
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“Current” rule.
Doesn’t mean it can’t change with discussion. Or by pointing out that by allowing it you are putting members from certain countries at risk legally, and are in breach of your hosting terms and conditions.
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I can relate with your concerns, and this is far from the first time it has been voiced to the community. There has been a discussion dedicated to that matter, though it has been called off by the mods for escalating too far.
Site-wide rules have been updated to deal with this issue, loli and shota tags are enforced and can be used in filters to hide these content.
If this is still unsettled, we can make another topic under Site Feedback dedicated to this, perhaps posting some challenges to the existing guidelines. This topic is, afterall, a script creator asking for opinions based on the premise of these established morality…
One broader discussion was closed in '20. The second seemed a bit hair-splitting but didn’t really address this issue.
If there are users from a breadth of countries that this site would like to retain as users and contributors. the site must take into account those rules/guidelines - such as the UK laws governing CP.
Freedom of expression does not come without guardrails. To insist it does, leaves land open for people with nefarious or harmful intent to plant a flag, so to speak. A site with the range of users like this, has to respect the needs - not desires, not interests, but legal needs - to set up those guardrails.
Personal feelings aside, the attitude that one must respect the loli/shota folks at the expense of those who can be harmed simply by the existence of content on a site they frequent or contribute to, is one that will see a community close ranks and shed users.
Now, personally? If some folks feel they need to have this content somewhere, they can head somewhere else like 4chan or make their own site mirror. Putting it here threatens the users from many places not just UK/EU, but potentially in the US or Canada as standards change. Whether it’s specifically CP or semantically adjacent to CP is a distinction without a difference in many jurisdictions (legally speaking) and something society in general does not differentiate between. For good reason.
Acting like it’s some academic egghead situation and “dEbAtE mE!” distinctions without difference is a favored tool of those wishing to drag down a discussion and stall it out with tedium. AKA - bad faith.
When the reality is that irl CP harms a lot of people and depictions are considered harmful by not just governments but much of global society itself, miring a discussion in pseudo-scholastic tripe is not doing anyone any good. The thinnest veneers of plausible deniability are similarly bunk, and simply lazy sophistry by people who cannot/will not confront the reality of their position.
The argument that it helps pedophiles and predators is that fake science - what does help is therapy.
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Just read up on local legislations from countries I know some of the userbase resides in.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but on my interpretation, a ban based on legal definitions would impact more than just the loli/shota content on this site; we’d have to remove any and all animation-related content that depicts an actual and/or implied minor.
I mean, I’ve seen content here with the Simpsons and Gumball and I’m sure those would get impacted too.
Edit: The age of majority also differs in some countries (in most it’s 18, but it could be up to 21), so if a ban is to be implemented, an agreement has to also be reached in regards to age.
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This whole thing is silly to me. Theyvare cartoons. If you dont like it ignore it and if you do like it download it. Mind your own business.
No one is forcing you to be on this site and no one needs you to be a “white Knight” with a saviour complex. Who are you saving anyway ?
Everyone agrees real CP is awful and should be dealt with harshly in every medium.
Also if you are going to start basing rules here on the back of laws in every country then everything here will be banned. Gay not allowed in middle eastern countries (punishable by death) and many countries have a ban on porn in general.
Since we are saving people what about the large contingent of therapist that think Porn in general ruins the minds and real life sex drives of men ? Maybe we should be saving lonely women from our fantasies.
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Read up on E-Hentai and ExHentai/SadPanda split, and maybe you can figure this one out without sounding silly.
People are annoyed not since EroScripts disrespects the law of Suriname, but because simply visiting a website that allows posting “9000-year-old dragon that looks like a 12-year-old girl” is a problem in many developed countries, where most of us reside I wager. And by far the easiest way to solve that is to press for a site rules change, since this is a handful of problematic topics per month - why throw away 95% of the perfectly normal posts in search for some scripting community that may not even exist?
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Yes, and it’s your liability, unfortunately, not the sites, they fulfill the law based in their country. Popular sites like Pixiv have a Loli Tag and a lot of NSFW stuff, and by law, you’re not allowed to view those sites in the UK. Same here i guess, it’s your risk and if you want to keep visiting this site get a VPN.
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This keeps coming up. We’ve discussed this issue at great length, both internally within the moderation team, and publicly in a variety of topics.
There are basically four areas of discussion here, and I’ll address them one by one.
The Loli Tag
This one has been largely settled - we require, as part of the site rules, for loli/shota content to be tagged as such, so that users who don’t want to see it can disable it. That doesn’t seem good enough for some users, so let’s consider the three ‘main’ areas of discussion:
1. Should EroScripts Ban Regionally Illegal Content
Different governments have different requirements of their citizens, and it’s those citizens’ responsibility to browse the web in accordance with the laws that bind them. Simple as that.
In the case of SadPanda, that was a situation where loli/shota content was made illegal by a change in the law of the country where the site’s content was hosted (The Netherlands). If the US made a similar law, then we would take down all loli/shota content on the site to comply (or have to move hosting to another country that allowed such content, I suppose).
In terms of risk to individual users, show me a single case worldwide of someone being charged with possession of child pornography simply from browsing the web and not actually consuming/downloading that content before you start being actually concerned. It’s not a thing, I’ve looked.
Many people are less concerned with legality than they are with the harmful nature of lolicon content, so:
2. Is Lolicon harmful?
Frankly, this is above my paygrade. Unless any of you are researchers in a relevant field (in which case I’d actually love to hear from you), it’s above yours too. I’ve done a fair amount of research into this because it keeps coming up, and of the studies linking pedophilia/pedosexuality and child pornography, some claim that child pornography reduces the rates of child sexual abuse, and others claim the opposite.
Of course, the creation of child pornography itself is sexual abuse, so I’ve always found those kinds of questions pretty silly, because child pornography shouldn’t exist at all. I haven’t found any good studies discussing this topic in the context of fictional/illustrated/animated child pornography (i.e. lolicon/shotacon), which I find frustrating.
For lack of any good body of research to fall back on, we’ve decided to fall back on US law when it comes to deciding whether lolicon content is actually harmful. It’s not ideal, but certainly the intuitive “I reckon” opinions of any of us aren’t adequate to answer such a complex question.
That said, there is one other method we could use to decide whether lolicon content should be banned aside from the law or academic consensus, and that is the broader community opinion. So…
3. Should EroScripts Ban Offputting Fetish Content
This is a freedom of expression question. Reframed (given that we can’t say anything conclusive about whether lolicon content is actually harmful), this question might be put ‘should EroScripts ban content that a majority of users find unpleasant’. Into this category would also fall other ‘extreme’ fetish content.
Our concern when setting rules is to create a community that is as welcoming and inclusive as possible, and it may well be that allowing offputting fetish content excludes more potential users than it includes. I’d be interested in hearing people’s (civil) thoughts on this in a separate topic.
Another solution might be to have certain tags hidden by default, which is almost a shadow-ban of such content, but not quite. (although I’m not sure whether this is possible within the forum software)
This thread has gone hopelessly off-topic, so I’m going to be closing it.
If someone wants to create a new topic in Site Feedback regarding a potential rule change based on the fact that lolicon makes many users uncomfortable, please go ahead and do so. Just be aware that:
- we’re not going to be changing the site rules based on regional law
- unless you can point me to some conclusive scientific studies showing that lolicon content harms real children, we’re not going to be considering stylized lolicon/shotacon content as harmful and ban it on those terms
- consider in that topic that banning lolicon because it’s offputting to a majority of users might mean banning other kinds of content that is similarly offputting
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