Upcoming loli/shota ban and timeline

General Site Updates
391

See, this is so god damn misleading, whether intentional or not.

Sending code 1644A really doesn’t help your case because you either haven’t read it or are really hoping people take you at your word. For anyone actually interested in the code I’ll break it down a bit.
The US has some of the best protections for freedom of expression in the world.

You expecitly left out the part pertaining to loli:

(A)
depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B)
lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;

and in 2252A, the penalties, it outlines a description of child pornography where

(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

This is the reason that even a site like ATF bans photorealistic AI generation.
We could argue about the law back and forth because people love to intentionally misread it, but in that case, just look at the history of sites in similar situations.
There is not 1 case, ever, of a US hosted/owned site being taken down BY FORCE due to loli art, NOT ONE. The only true threat to this site, would be Visa/Mastercard blocking payments within the site. Which if we are to take you at your word, should never be a problem:

But if you’re changing the rules based on the big card providers, then you are gonna have other problems, because they hate all porn.

Look, I understand that your site, your rules. But stop hiding behind the thinly veiled shield of the US law, when the US law is the thing protecting this site at the moment.

You are planning to ban this content because you think there’s a risk. And you refuse to actually address what that risk is specifically. Just a vague, “oh legal risk”.

And for all the people celebrating the ban because the thing you hate is gone now, don’t be so short sighted, you’re celebrating unjustified censorship with poor communication to go along with it.

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392

yeah thats right indistinguishable, even the most advent anti loli person can agree that loli is distinguishable from cp. very distinguishable. even if they still think its bad or harmful in another way. at least they can agree its not the same.

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393

Well before they used to say “Content that is realistically styled is not allowed (as a reference example: Last of Us gameplay ).”

Which I could understand why, they are sometimes “too realistic” and “underage” that could put you close to the line, I was somewhat accepting of the rule.

Clearly the loli content that is on the site is not realistic and you can understand that they aren’t real…

:saluting_face: Well at least there will soon be a place for all lolis to be welcome.

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394

Have seen some comments mentioning that we should still be able to post scripts for videos that would fall under this ban, but not the video itself and that the person will have to find the video on their own. While I somewhat would like this to be a thing, have to keep in mind that if this would be allowed then it would technically open up scripts for other site banned content, like deepfake content for example.

If the site would start accepting us to post only the scripts for loli/shota content but not the content itself, then technically, what would then stop people from posting scripts for other banned content? The mods/admins/site owner etc have most likely already discussed this internally.

I have a feeling that after this ban is in effect, there will definitely be some people that will go and flag/report content with petite women that they personally deem as “loli” content and with a reason like “this character is actually XX years old and is from the XX game/anime, they are not petite, they are clearly a loli” etc etc. And sadly it feels like it won’t stop at this, because people will always have different views towards certain things.

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395

this much i true and people could script much worse things and only share the script but if they were going to do that it would be really obvious based on the name and or the preview photo as not showing one at all would be very suspicious.

at the end of the day reports would be something that the mods would need to look at on a case by case basis.

i still think even if people did that it would be easy to figure out of course but most importantly. its just a script file until you go looking for the content that goes along with it.

i remember i once had to do this when i downloaded a giant zip of funscripts having to look for the video to go along with them online. its no different than that other than knowing a place the video resides. either way where it resides is not here, nor is the link to said video here either.

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396

It’s a free site run by volunteers. Hence, the mods DO get the final say.

I’m getting a bit tired of the logic that “if my thing is banned, then you have to ban all these other things!”

No one is censoring you. The mods are uncomfortable with it, and it is their site. Find another forum to post that stuff on.

You guys are starting to sound like Trumpies. Muh freedom! Muh rights! C’mon, give it a rest.

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397

they arent uncomfortable with it lol they just don’t want legal bs to deal with

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398

Did you even bother reading the thread? I can’t count how many times they repeated it wasn’t done out of personal taste but it’s not like I’d expect you to give a shit if it validates your worldview.

Oh my god, dude. Seriously?

No one’s making you read the thread.

There are plenty of pertinent discussions taking place.

And yeah, no, I don’t care how it is seen from people like you. Freedom, rights and all of that are worth standing up for an no amount of shaming is gonna shut us up.

We’re aware the decision is final and we have mostly accepted it. We’re trying to find compromises or to understand what it will mean concretely. I got most of my answers, but others are allowed to keep probing.

Just mute the thread like you should have muted the tag if it bothered you that much, jesus.

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399

Hello! Please don’t get emotional.
As I mentioned earlier, I understand that the moderators are considering only the legal risks.
If that’s the case, I am pointing out that there are legal risks associated with content other than lolicon and shotacon.
I am raising this issue because I find their arguments contradictory.
In fact, my question has not yet been answered.

You claim that the moderators are uncomfortable with me, but have you asked them directly?
It might be due to my poor English skills, but I couldn’t find any context indicating that the moderators are uncomfortable with me.
Again, emotional responses won’t lead to a productive discussion.

In the end, we will likely follow the administrators’ intentions. However, I feel that there is currently a lack of explanation.

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400

Yes, I’ve read the whole of this godawful mess of a thread. The mods are uncomfortable with the level of risk they perceive regarding the content. Going on and on about how they should take your perception (the user with no risk) over their own is tiresome.

The whole freedom and rights nonsense is a typical projection that Trumpies make - no rights are absolute. No freedoms are absolute. The consitutional protections afforded to free expression protect you from THE GOVERNMENT censoring you, not private parties. If you hang some sexualized loli content on the wall of your office at work, you’re going to get fired. All the yelling about your rights and freedoms wont change that.

The mods have stated innumerable times that, in their judgement, the risk around this content is unacceptable to them. Going on and on trying to argue technicalities in search of ways around the rule is disrespectful to the people that host and run this site for free.

Respect their decision. Stop stirring the pot and giving them grief. If you don’t like it, leave and host your own site.

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401

Ehh okay some of my content I would like to share is already banned (deepfake), but we peeps found eachother and share through PMs.

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402

Working on it.

This is a thread to discuss the ban, that’s the whole point. If it was so simple to up and make a new forum, We would’ve done it. But it’s not, the entire community is essentially this one site, creating a new one with slightly altered rules is not gonna bring over the userbase.

I like eroscripts, if I didn’t give a shit I’d say nothing and move on. But this site as a whole is great, but this ban is a dealbreaker for me and a lot of others.

Many of us aren’t satisfied by the answers given by the mods. Yes it’s their choice, yes they have every right to ban whatever they want, but I think the risk they’re talking about has no merit and there’s no evidence to suggest that there is any real risk.

Stop trying to shut down discussion, yelling nonsense about “Trumpies” is the only thing stirring the pot.

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403

Any porn will do that lol

Jesus you all sound the absolute same.

It’s fine if you don’t give a damn, but what is it with you spineless people trying to drag us down with you.

Let people discuss. The mods can lock the thread if they get enough. That said, people like Hentai_Scripts are politely asking questions and they are allowed to.

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404

So many flagged posts. Y’all need to realize the isn’t about the current but about what housing that content could do to the site. We want to keep ES alive and right now that means not hosting this content.

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405

I believe this line from the law should have also been quoted in this thread

It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exist.

A lot of discussion here goes back to “they are fictional, there is no victim”… This type of argument is beyond the point when law was defined to make practically any contact (produce/receive/possess/distribute) with the content in which any depiction of a child in adult context a crime. Even user of the forum who opens a page with images of offending content has received it to their PC (and it stays there in the cache), if you happen to live in US and they persecuted you, they would take that as evidence (not proof until you get to court, but evidence they collect against you).

This implication of the law should be enough to make everyone understand why you would not want to bear risk of having any kind of potential target on your back due to being even adjacent to the potentially illegal content.

For rest of the discussion, the only valid point I see being raised is about this site being distributor primarily of funscripts, and not of any audio/visual content, but every topic right now happens to have description, links, previews - all pasted into the topic and hosted here (actually according to #8 of Acceptable Use, it is not even allowed to paste links to images, they have to be here). You have not stated if main reason for ban is that you expect that funscripts might start to be perceived as illegal by law enforcement in near future, or that you don’t want this particular category to be special in a way that no links/images/previews etc is posted for funscripts in it (which introduces a lot/too much/unsustainable amount of work for moderators to make sure all topics and all comments are clear, while not actually reducing the risk for you since a gap in moderation is all it takes to be exposed), or it might be both of these reasons. I don’t demand you answer this, it is your discretion after all, but I think having this answer would be understood and accepted by at least those users who are participating here in good faith.

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406

That’s a misunderstanding of how those US codes are written.

Section (c), the one you quoted, basically means that someone can be prosecuted under this law for fictional depictions, BUT it first has to meet the requirements of section (a) and (b), which includes

lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;

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407

Good observation.
So, assuming we host the problematic content, what issues could arise?
The moderators have only mentioned legal risks, but what specific risks are they referring to? I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that there is a lack of explanation regarding these risks.
Possible consequences could include being sued by legal authorities or the site being forcibly shut down, but are there any actual cases where a site has been sued or forcibly shut down for hosting fictional lolicon or shotacon content?

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408

This is completely irrelevant for their risk assesment and decision because it does not prevent law enforcement action. Once investigation starts, they won’t be bothered by this. Value is not defined in the law, it is left to be evaluated by subjectivity of a judge who will sign a warrant to confiscate the content, they can simply say “once you add funscripts to the artistic content, you objectified it in a sexual way, therefore the artistic value was lost” and proceed with the case.

And lets say you are right and the judge was wrong. Even if the admins can prove in court that there was artistic value, that is after the fact, when site was already shut down and they are faced with huge legal costs, potentially an arrest and a scandal that affects their family, job, friends… there is everything to loose here, and you probably know it or you would start your own site to host the content.
If “no site has been shut down for it” is enough of argument for more than just you, then you can join and easily crowdfund the cost for running server and pay for instance of discourse forum, but you can’t force these who disagree with that risk assesment to take risk they perceive, either they decide to take it themselves, or they don’t. Saying that there is no risk is not the same as doing it. Words on the internet don’t mean anything.

You are either completely oblivious to reality or not posting here in good faith.

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409

You know what isn’t irrelevant. History. How many US sites have been shut down from hosting loli hentai?

ZERO

That’s all theoretical what-if nonsense. I could say the same about the abundance of copyrighted works or cg bestiality.

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411

Rip, can’t edit posts in slowmode.

To add onto the last reply. I’m not saying that the mods aren’t allowed to evaluate what they perceive as a risk to the site and get rid of it. I’m saying that loli art is just not that big of a risk, and the mods are unjustly banning it, and not only banning it, They’re going to purge all existing content.

and I answered that earlier

You wouldn’t be saying that if they were removing something you liked with the same lack of justification.

Tell that to the artists who create it. Careful, your bias is showing.

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